Range package - electrically heated windshield

[joneng22]

Hi,

Just picked-up a 2014 MB BED with the range package. Does anyone else have this package and know how to activate the electrically heated windshield?

I am a little disappointed that the owner's manual states a warning that the use of "range extender" will compromise the life of the battery. It even states that the more you use it the less range you will get. What I don't understand is how the warranty (8 years / 100K miles) on the battery works? I would think you could consistently use the range extender to the point where the battery is not efficient. Assuming you are still within the 8 year / 100K mile you could bring it back to the dealer for battery replacement which is covered by the warranty.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Do you know if the battery has a capacity warranty?

 

[joneng22]

Do you know if the battery has a capacity warranty?

I have to check my materials. I believe the dealer said that if the capacity goes down to 75% that is when the warranty kicks in.

 

[rdias]

The capacity warranty is 70% ....

The use of the extended range its not a problem... That only does a 100% charge until 33kwh ... And the battery capacity is 36kwh...

The problem of the use of extended range Is if you leave the soc too much time in 100% .. Só, if you charge and then use the car its not a problem ...

 

[BCKator]

WRT the battery capacity at any given time, I think that this value is something we get from the manufacturer's diagnostic HW/SW. So, I guess we all have to trust what they say. I don't think that this is any different from any other EVs.

WRT the use of extended range not being a problem, I disagree. It is a problem if you are interested in extending the lifespan/capacity of the battery. I've read some articles which indicate that battery capacity over time will degrade more as a function of the extremes to which you charge and discharge. Ideally, if battery lifespan were the only objective, you would only want to charge to say ~60% and only discharge to ~40%.

The way I like to think of it for the MBBED, the battery pack has a raw capacity of 36kWh. The default full charge is ~75% which gets you the 27kWh MB marketing is using (27/36=.75) and the extended range option ups this (overcharges) to a ~90% soc or .9*36 = 32.4 kWh equivalent.

One thing I would like to know is if the car or battery records it's charging history. I would think that the dealer or a prospective used-EV buyer would like to have this information. You would think that the engineers could & would record, SOC at start of charge, charge rate, duration, and final SOC for each charge cycle. Then again, they place no warranty restrictions on how many times you can use the overcharge so perhaps this is because they have no way to tell.

 

[joneng22]

The capacity warranty is 70% ....

The use of the extended range its not a problem... That only does a 100% charge until 33kwh ... And the battery capacity is 36kwh...

The problem of the use of extended range Is if you leave the soc too much time in 100% .. Só, if you charge and then use the car its not a problem ...

Thank you for the feedback.

 

[joneng22]

WRT the battery capacity at any given time, I think that this value is something we get from the manufacturer's diagnostic HW/SW. So, I guess we all have to trust what they say. I don't think that this is any different from any other EVs.

WRT the use of extended range not being a problem, I disagree. It is a problem if you are interested in extending the lifespan/capacity of the battery. I've read some articles which indicate that battery capacity over time will degrade more as a function of the extremes to which you charge and discharge. Ideally, if battery lifespan were the only objective, you would only want to charge to say ~60% and only discharge to ~40%.

The way I like to think of it for the MBBED, the battery pack has a raw capacity of 36kWh. The default full charge is ~75% which gets you the 27kWh MB marketing is using (27/36=.75) and the extended range option ups this (overcharges) to a ~90% soc or .9*36 = 32.4 kWh equivalent.

One thing I would like to know is if the car or battery records it's charging history. I would think that the dealer or a prospective used-EV buyer would like to have this information. You would think that the engineers could & would record, SOC at start of charge, charge rate, duration, and final SOC for each charge cycle. Then again, they place no warranty restrictions on how many times you can use the overcharge so perhaps this is because they have no way to tell.

I read an article where the "range package" was important from a marketing perspective because with this option you are able to surpass the magic 100 mile range mark. I think it was more of a psychological point for the consumer. However, what good is it if they disclaim the negative effects of using it. As a new owner of this vehicle I am a little reluctant to use this extender. I have a new type of anxiety, "Range extender anxiety".

 

[tomt]

Hopefully someone will come up with the types of aftermarket meters that we have had for years for the Leaf and that gives you all that information and far more...

WRT the battery capacity at any given time, I think that this value is something we get from the manufacturer's diagnostic HW/SW. So, I guess we all have to trust what they say. I don't think that this is any different from any other EVs.

 

[tomt]

70% over 8 years and 100,000 miles...

The capacity warranty is 70% ....

 

[rdias]

. The problem is if you leave at 100% during long time....

If you Want to keep the car stopped for long time left the battery with 60%....

The average life cycle of the battery is 1500 complete cycles...

So you can do 4500... 33% cycles or 1500 complete cycles....

And if you dont do sometimes 100% charges your pack it will look to shrink because only with
100% charge the bMS of the car will calcUlate the real degradation and the real capacity of the pack.
And to balancing the pack is only possible with 100% charges ...

Of course im not saying to do always always 100% charges but the use its not a problem...

And Mercedes and Tesla knows that só there is no restrition on warranty...

They only say no to abuse because the Client without information can leave that soc for 100% for long time...

 

[tomt]

Actually, we have absolutely no idea if this is true with the ED and its BMS! We do know it is no longer true with the Leafs from 2013 on...

And if you dont do sometimes 100% charges your pack it will look to shrink because only with
100% charge the bMS of the car will calcUlate the real degradation and the real capacity of the pack.
And to balancing the pack is only possible with 100% charges ...

 

[rdias]

Actually, we have absolutely no idea if this is true with the ED and its BMS! We do know it is no longer true with the Leafs from 2013 on...

And if you dont do sometimes 100% charges your pack it will look to shrink because only with
100% charge the bMS of the car will calcUlate the real degradation and the real capacity of the pack.
And to balancing the pack is only possible with 100% charges ...

its happening with all the batteries..... even in leaf 2013... when you start to do 100% charges... you start to balancing the package... it takes sometimes months but you can see it in cells with leaf spy....

And it happens with tesla model S.... its phisic of the lithium batteries.... in leaf 2013 is better than leaf 2011 but it happens... the new leaf battery there is not yet data or time enought to see....

how do you calculate degradation in any EV ? The real degradation of The Pack ?

 

[tomt]

Leaf Spy Pro does it by reading the data from the BMS and VCM...

how do you calculate degradation in any EV ? The real degradation of The Pack ?

 

[tomt]

It is quite possible to balance a pack at less then 100% charge by reading and tracking the individual cell imbalance - just as you can also do at 100% - and applying the appropriate shunts to the highest cells. What is unknown is whether or not MB does this...

its happening with all the batteries..... even in leaf 2013... when you start to do 100% charges... you start to balancing the package...

 

[rdias]

The leaf spy you can ser degradation but its nota tottaly correct .... Any SW can be manipulated ... The only way and it works for any EV is by the outlet...

With a meter in the outlet you see how many kWh you use to charge from O to 100%.... And you havê to do it always in the same kind of outlet ...

I always say ... The first thing that you must do when you buy a EV is to charge from 0 to 100%... See how much it consume from the outlet ... That is the reference number...

A long the time , months , years ... It will consume less to charge ... That diference is degradation....

Forget SW ... The brands make updates and start confusion... More range .. Less range ...

 

[tomt]

My EVSE has a watt hour meter so I can track it accurately... However, even that can lead you astray as the only accurate way to get usable and repeatable Whr data is by running the battery down to a defined benchmark such as turtle (or at least to exactly LBW (49 Gids) or VLBW (24 Gids)) and charging it back up to 100% every time... Otherwise, your baseline is constantly moving and your measurements will be imprecise... An easier - and often more accurate - method for many is simply to do a range test to determine the decrease in miles available... My experience with these over the years has shown that the Leaf Spy is quite accurate in measuring degradation and that they all closely track if done correctly...

A long the time , months , years ... It will consume less to charge ... That diference is degradation....

 

[rdias]

My EVSE has a watt hour meter so I can track it accurately... However, even that can lead you astray as the only accurate way to get usable and repeatable data is by basically running the battery down to turtle and charging it back up to 100%... Otherwise, your baseline is constantly moving... An easier method is simply to do a range test to determine the decrease in miles available... My experience with these over the years has shown that the Leaf Spy is quite accurate in measuring degradation and that they all closely track...

A long the time , months , years ... It will consume less to charge ... That diference is degradation....

Ofcourse... You havê to do it from 0 to 100%... Bit is the most accurate way to do it ... And the only way in other EV than the leaf ( leaf spy ) and MIEV ( canion )....

Só for a tesla or a B classe... With the watt metter is the way and the better way for all EV...

 

[tomt]

Most people will not be comfortable running their EV to exhaustion...

Ofcourse... You havê to do it from 0 to 100%... Bit is the most accurate way to do it ...

 

[rdias]

You are afraid to take you Ev close to O% or to 100 % ...

With a range of 104 miles ... With extended range ... You have to open more your mind .... And use and learn more about your car ...

I think we in eulimite because se more the limits....

Im expecting the sales start in europe and i will ask for s test drive for one day... And i will explore all the limits... Because i will have to use it in the limits because of the range....

 

[tomt]

I've taken my Leaf to 0% and 100% MANY times...

You are afraid to take you Ev close to O% or to 100 % ...