Buying an off lease model.

[Punkdr]

Hi guys,

I am looking for an electric car to soak up my excess solar. I found the b class basically by accident. It is a really good fit for my needs. I have a 28 mile round trip commute to work most days.

Question is should I actually buy one...I’m currently looking at a 2017 with 15k miles on it, still over a year on warranty.

It seems that battery issues aren’t that prevalent, but the fluid in the motor seems to be fairly common...just found out that friend of friend bought one of these (the original 2014). And was basically bricked a few months after the warranty lapsed...apparently Mercedes wanted around 20k to fix...he tried a 3rd party to no avail...ended up junking it. I don’t want a repeat of that.

I don’t think that any reputable 3rd party warranty company will cover these cars, and there are no cpo’s available.

So also from reading on the forum it sounds like Mercedes no longer supports the app, so you can’t warm the car up remotely?

I really do like this car and wish that Mercedes would support it.

Is it too risky to buy? Anyone figure out a way to help mitigate the risk?

Thanks for any insights and advice .

Punkdr

 

[Punkdr]

Just looked at a thread I had missed where
It said you can get and extended warranty if less than 10k miles....

How long does that last and how much does that cost?

Thanks again

Punkdr

 

[FordAnglia]

I am looking for an electric car to soak up my excess solar. I found the b class basically by accident. It is a really good fit for my needs. I have a 28 mile round trip commute to work most days.

Oh snap! I was in the market for an EV last summer, and settled on an off-lease B250e MY2017 with 9,800 miles.

Question is should I actually buy one...I’m currently looking at a 2017 with 15k miles on it, still over a year on warranty.

Yes! Great vehicle, I'm still in the honeymoon phase with mine. A daily commuter (16km each way, plus a few local customer visits)
Finding one with under 10k miles qualifies for the MB warranty, that's several free services over two years.

It seems that battery issues aren’t that prevalent, but the fluid in the motor seems to be fairly common...just found out that friend of friend bought one of these (the original 2014). And was basically bricked a few months after the warranty lapsed...apparently Mercedes wanted around 20k to fix...he tried a 3rd party to no avail...ended up junking it. I don’t want a repeat of that.

The high voltage battery seems solid, but requires a no-cost annual MB inspection. Likely to replace the breather filters that keep moisture out of the battery compartment. There's issues with the 12V "car battery", and not just on the B250e EV.
Early Tesla Model S Drive Units (Motor and Inverter electronics, transmission and differential gearing) had an issue that requires replacement. These were also used in other EVs including the MY2014 B250e. So look for a late model B250e.
The DU failures appear to be related to coolant leaking, motor bearing failure causing 'whining' noises, and failure of the inverter (which might be a result of coolant leaks) Tesla fixed the DU issues but reportedly replaced quite a few on their own vehicles.

I don’t think that any reputable 3rd party warranty company will cover these cars, and there are no cpo’s available.

I'd not bother with a non-MB service contract. Only take the B250e to a third party shop if the problem is obvious or in need of routine service such as tire rotation and replacement.

So also from reading on the forum it sounds like Mercedes no longer supports the app, so you can’t warm the car up remotely?

Correct, no apps besides "MercedesMe" (useful for sending street addresses to the in vehicle nav system, and remote lock/unlock)
As a new to EV owner, and new to MB, I bought the MB in vehicle SOS service, but I don't expect to renew it. I got two years for a discount of around $180. I also have AAA, but haven't needed any road side service on the B250e.

I really do like this car and wish that Mercedes would support it.
Is it too risky to buy? Anyone figure out a way to help mitigate the risk?

I also like the B250e, and it suits my commuter needs perfectly, that and free EV charging at work. Total energy cost over the past six months has been under five dollars (public charging before I discovered the local free EVSEs) The only dealer visit was for an annual battery certification (important to keep the MB battery warranty active), and the 20k miles service at no cost (as I prepaid at time of purchase)

IMHO, Mercedes brought the B250e to the USA market for what seemed like good reasons in 2014, and by 2017 realized it was a business misstep.
MB in EU was developing their own product, which would compete with Tesla, and likely ended the Tesla partnership that powers the B250e.

Not all US MB dealers were trained to work on the B250e (that goes for the showroom staff, too...) So you will likely meet frustration until you find someone at MB with the skills to keep the MB running. It looks like the maintenance and repair is "module swapping" - which is true of many brands of ICE cars. Local MB shops aren't expected to have the tools and training to open modules, even if the problem is trivial (blow fuses, etc.) Third party repair shops are unlikely to know much about any EV, and mine simply won't work on any EVs. We're not quite ready for EV specialist shops to appear in your town (if at all over the next decades)

I'll be facing a tough personal decision when the HOV stickers on my B250e expire (Jan2022) I'd like to keep the B250e running, or I'll be looking for another EV, assuming I have the same commute.

Closing thought; the B250e is an example of a "computer on four wheels", just like the Tesla and other EVs. My friend calls it "An all-weather Golf cart"!

Peter,

 

[Punkdr]

Thanks peter,

I think I have found a third party warranty that is legit...it is for 5 years...I can buy it for a ‘15, 16’ 17’...the cost of the car goes down and the cost of the warranty goes up...but if it is going to be 5!years of warranty regardless of the year of the car, should
I just get the 2015?

Do we know what year that Tesla supposedly improved the motor failure problem? I would appreciate your thoughts on that.

Punkdr

 

[FordAnglia]

I think I have found a third party warranty that is legit...it is for 5 years...I can buy it for a ‘15, 16’ 17’...the cost of the car goes down and the cost of the warranty goes up...but if it is going to be 5!years of warranty regardless of the year of the car, should
I just get the 2015?

Where do you get service with a third-party warranty? For the B250e I would think you will still need a qualified MB repair shop, right?

I was offered a third-party warranty by the MB dealer on my B250e, plus the MB warranty (as the vehicle had less than 10k miles)
I took the MB warranty. Don't recall the cost difference off hand.

Do we know what year that Tesla supposedly improved the motor failure problem? I would appreciate your thoughts on that.

Hard data is going to be hard to source. Best I can find is on the Tesla forums where many Model S MY2014 Drive Units (DUs) were replaced under warranty.
Check out the Tesla Owner's member poll stats here

Also, more detailed breakdown of the data here

I assume that the first build of DUs were faulty, but quickly corrected, and the original issues solved for good. Therefore only the older B250e vehicles are at risk. Avoid the MY2014 and MY2015 vehicles? Counterpoint is that if these vehicles were affected they would have already been serviced with new DUs.

Anyone here with a late-model B250e that has/had a DU problem?

If you can find a late-model B250e with under 10K miles it will qualify for the MB "factory" warranty. Should a DU fail the warranty cost will be a good investment compared with a replacement cost.

Peter,

 

[Punkdr]

Thanks Peter...

Is the coolant leak issue, the same as the Tesla 2014 du failure, or is that a separate issue?

Here are some more details, which would you pick?

So, warranty is 500$ deductible.. will be serviced at mb dealer by the warranty. Cost of warranty is approximately $2100.

All 3 years have essentially the same miles 20k

2015 is baseline
2016 +2k
2017 +5k has real leather and seat heaters. These 3 I have a high level of trust on the 3rd party warranty.

There is one other I’m considering, it is a 2017 with leather and seat heaters cost is +2500, it has 15k miles, but the warranty underwriter I am not as sure of...I am checking in with my buddy that owns a repair shop to find out if they actually pay out if needed or just give endless run around.

Thanks again for your insights

Punkdr

 

[FordAnglia]

Is the coolant leak issue, the same as the Tesla 2014 du failure, or is that a separate issue?

Assume the B250e will have the same issues that are reported by early Model S owners. There's a ton more Teslas on the road, so they generally discover things before the much smaller B250e population. I don't know of any B250e only issues that have shown up.

The same fluid (aka "Coolant") passes through the motor, transmission, and the inverter, and then the high voltage battery. Its more of a temperature regulator not just for cooling, as it both heats and cools depending upon the way the vehicle is used . To dump heat from motor and inverter during driving, or to warm the high voltage battery in cold weather. During high-speed (L2) charging the high voltage battery will need additional cooling.

As for leaks, I think the problems have been liquid in the inverter, shorting high voltage components, and liquid in the motor itself. There's some YouTube teardown videos showing how these pieces are plumbed together. The liquid's heat is removed by a radiator, much like an ICE vehicle, except there is no fan. Some Tesla Model S owners report stone (gravel) or other object damage to the radiator, causing a leak, and thus voiding the warranty.

In my experience for the B250e EV (any EV?) the vehicle is so quiet that the driver starts to hear and recognize sounds of other mechanical parts. For example the Parking brake noise, pump(s) or fans running on very hot or very cold days, and the odd clunk when coming to full stop in traffic. Nothing to worry about!

Here are some more details, which would you pick?

I'd look serious at the youngest (2017) vehicles.

BTW, my wife spotted a 2017 B250e Jupiter Red at the local Carmax lot yesterday. I found it and three other local MY2017 B250e's on Kelly Blue Book.
The mileage on each was higher (about 25k) than I was expecting, which is good news that the B250e population is on the road and racking up the miles.

I'm delighted that your vehicle will be serviced by MB. Their name and three-point star are on the B250e, and this should give them an incentive to take good care of you; a future MB customer and "rolling billboard" for their brand.

I'm getting good use out of the heated seats. I'm in Northern California, and so far this winter (my first with an EV) I've only seen ice on the windows one morning. I park outside. Where are you out of curiosity?

Peter,

 

[JeffRay]

PunkDr,

Dropping in on your conversation with Peter. Can only add if it were me to prioritize in the following order, longest possible warranty coverage first, lowest mileage second, and everything else last. That generally translates to going for the 2017s first and paying more for remaining warranty and then choosing the one with the lowest mileage. Since the cost is presumably around $20K, it is an affordable luxury EV. If you need to spend less, then perhaps a low mileage older model year with an extended warranty is the way to go.

There is also the auction market where you can get your hands on B250e coming off lease and save on the used car markup. For example, a B250e with a lease purchase price of $21K, might go for as little as $16K to a reseller. The trick is that you have to know someone who is a wholesale participant who will get it for you for a set fee. I am no expert here but am considering buying mine at an auction since it was impossible to negotiate with MBFS or my dealer in 2017 when I turned in my 2014 B250.

 

[Punkdr]

Hi Jeff and Peter:

Im in Salt Lake City Utah area. So seat heaters should be range preserving in the cold. At least that’s what I’ve been told by people who have electric cars.

There were at least three original 2014’s here in Utah that I could track down. Of those 3, 2 are still on the road. One got bricked shortly after the warranty expired. Unfortunately the owner didn’t buy the extended warranty.

As far as warranties go, I think the best bet is to get a 2017 that is still under warranty,and then buy the extended warranty through the Mercedes dealership. It is a bit pricey, but it is legitimate.

I think the only other viable alternative I have found is buying through Carmax and get their five year warranty.

That one doesn’t cover the battery, so if you buy one from them, you need to make sure that the battery service has been performed so you’re still under warranty for Mercedes.

Also, the cars at Carmax as you noted do you seem to have higher miles on them.

Interestingly, I could not find the read 2017 out of Carmax when I did a nationwide search. I can only find one 2017 at Carmax which is in North Carolina.

I’m hopeful, that they ironed out the kinks just before they quit making the thing, I really do like the car and hope to keep it for as long as possible.

I did find a friend of a friend who can do the auction thing. But at this point, I’m somewhat thinking of just getting the one that is here locally and buying the extended warranty from Mercedes. I think that would be about 23K Including everything(extended warranty) but sales tax.

Thanks for your insights

Punkdr

 

[FordAnglia]

Im in Salt Lake City Utah area. So seat heaters should be range preserving in the cold. At least that’s what I’ve been told by people who have electric cars.

I should do a bit more investigating, you've piqued my curiosity. Logically by warming the passenger's seat should be less energy than warming the entire interior. This past week I've been plagued by misty windows while using the driver's seat heater and not running the HVAC at all. To overcome that issue I have also used the rear defogger (electric), but I really need to run the front defogger to clear the windshield first. Still learning!

In general I'm on the EVSE L2 chargers more in the winter, and I think my co-workers are too. Had to use a public charger twice this week, as I rolled into work with only six miles remaining range on a recent cold morning.

Also, the cars at Carmax as you noted do you seem to have higher miles on them.

Interestingly, I could not find the read 2017 out of Carmax when I did a nationwide search. I can only find one 2017 at Carmax which is in North Carolina.

My error; the local CarMax has a red B250e MY2016, not MY2017 on the lot. Plus two more locally. There are other B250e's on third party lots that I found through Kelly Blue Book's website.



Peter,

 

[JeffRay]

Punkdr et al.,

So my 2017 B250e will be coming off lease in September. I suspect other 2017s will also be put on the used market. Based on what other members have done, I have initiated discussions with MB dealers to see if they want to make a quick buck, $$$$, and buy mine from MBFS at a discount and flip it back to me, at a price that is a win win for them and me and no skin off MBFS who will save the auction fee.

That is of course if I decide to keep it. Otherwise, I will post it here to see if any members want a gently used 2017 with current mileage below 10K and no issues to date other than a fender bender that has been fixed. Original OEM run flats unused and in the boot. It is black with dark trim, no nav, no parking assist, no upgraded radio, but has range extender which was standard. Annual battery certification so warranty intact.

Kids love the car as it is roomy in the back and not flashy. First world decisions, decisions. Keep or release?

 

[Punkdr]

Hi JeffRay,

Hope you have been staying safe there in NYC.

Here is my update:

I bought a 2017 MY (original sales date in Jan 18) with just under 13k miles on it...
I ended up buying it sight unseen from a California dealer....cost me 17.9 k (plus $250 inspection by Pomcar that turned out to be a compete waste of money), plus $700 shipping plus 250 to get the door dings our that the inspection didn’t mention. Plus sales tax. I hunted high and low and spent a considerable amount of time getting the best possible price/latest model sold so a longer manufacturer warranty from the time I purchased. Local Mercedes dealer said they would get me one off auction but there price quote was pretty ridiculous as they wanted about 4K more than I ended up paying.0

I bought mine in early February...post covid I did find some better deals, but I am pretty happy with what I got.

I have put 2000 solar powered miles on it so far...I have hauled a 65” television plus usual Costco groceries plus my ten year old son in a single trip!

I have also hauled home 5-6 assorted evergreen and fruit trees from the nursery in a single load...I would say for me that the utility ability of this vehicle is quite amazing for its size.

I didn’t get Apple car play option, but it does have navigation which is pretty primitive...I have been able to send directions to it from the app.,. Trying to input direction directly into the navigation is rough...

before I bought it I thought the 85 mile range would be fine....I have several other ice cars if needed, but at this point I would prefer to take the bclass on some of the longer trips....I had to run to a nearby town about 60 miles away and was bummed I had to take the ice.

My biggest concern is the reliability although it has so far been reliable, when I was bringing the trees home from the nursery, in the parking lot, I got a warning about not shifting gears and contact the dealer...I turned the car off and then on again and everything went fine....

Should I be worried that was something real, or just a software glitch?

Other than that, I really like the car...it is very functional for my needs...Doesn’t have the look at me factor of some of the other options, but taking in to account the price spread, I have no complaints

Stay safe,

Punkdr

 

[JeffRay]

So, I put the question to my dealer on 4.23 as to them buying the car form MBFS at a discount and reselling it to me sharing some of the discount. He expressed interest but has not replied as of yet. Lease expires in September, current mileage is 8765 and if I remain hibernated then likely that I will be a little over 9K at lease end. Shame to turn it in but I am not going to pay the listed $19K for mine as per the lease.

How is everybody?

 

[DTesla]

I am considering a 2017 off lease unit in the AZ area. Since I am in Texas I will be relying on a friend to visually inspect and a third party inspector to inspect the car for condition, mechanical issues, etc. I have contacted my local Mercedes dealer in Ft Worth to check to determine if battery checks have been performed on schedule (warranty) and also to get a proposal to extend warranty when warranty expires in 6 months. I have two questions if anyone on the board can help.

1. Mercedes Extended warranty cost for 5 year 75k miles or similiar.
2. Any referrals to dealer who might be able to provide battery info without throwing the "confidentiality card"

Dwain

 

[PatricioEV]

I just purchased a 5 yr / 60,000 bumper to bumper with $500 deductible for ~$6500. The same warranty for my 2016 GLC300 with only $100 deductible was $4995.

I can't answer the second question but I wouldn't worry too much about the battery.

 

[DTesla]

I just purchased a 5 yr / 60,000 bumper to bumper with $500 deductible for ~$6500. The same warranty for my 2016 GLC300 with only $100 deductible was $4995.

I can't answer the second question but I wouldn't worry too much about the battery.

Thanks for the info. Is your B a 2017 also?

 

[PatricioEV]

2016 w/ ~35k miles

 

[DTesla]

Well its a deal. I have purchased a 2017 B with premium 2 package, brown leather, and blind spot monitoring . It is located in AZ so I have to wait a few days for it to be shipped to Texas. Factory warranty good until December so I am on the hunt to find the right extended warranty for the car. I have purchased several charging cables (30 amp to 20 amp 110) and Tesla destination charger to J1772 cord. (1 Tesla Model S already in the garage). Curious if any other owners here have used the Tesla EVSE to J1772 adapter to charge their B?

I cant wait until Wed to receive the car..

 

[PatricioEV]

My '16 has all available options and brown leather. I LOVE the brown leather. It's a very good looking material!

 

[JeffRay]

DTesla,

Congratulations. Enjoy the ride!