B250 Owner's reliability experiences

[oilerlord]

Hello everyone.

After months of EV research, I've run the gauntlet of Spark, Focus Electric, and have finally decided that the B250ED makes the most sense for us. I've found a low mileage 2014 with under 5K miles with all the recalls up to date. I can't believe that used EV's are available at 50% off of original MSRP. Seems like such an incredible value. I'm not too concerned about range as we have a second ICE car in the garage for longer trips.

The Tesla battery / powertrain was the biggest reason I went with the Mercedes. I like that it conservatively uses only 28kWh out of the 36kWh pack, and along with Tesla's famous battery cooling & management, I'm hoping the battery lasts well beyond 50,000 miles with only minor degradation. I'd like to hear from owners that are into their second year of ownership, and with higher mileages on their B's:

- What issues have you had thus far?
- About what % battery degradation have you experienced thus far.
- Based on your experience, would you buy this car again?

Thanks!

 

[wtzouris]

I love my 2014 B-Class ED. 16k miles, no issues.
I am on a 3 year/36k mile lease
No battery degradation, range is 68 miles in winter storms, 110 miles in summer.
Worst ever was 62 miles on range charge driving in a blizzard.
Pre-conditioning helps in winter, but I won't drive without cabin heating. And you cannot turn off the battery heater.
My buyout is $20k after the lease is over -- would I buy it? Yes, but only if I had a guaranteed bullet proof warranty /service plan to 100k miles or more.
I do not like the service department at Mercedes.

I have a Tesla Model 3 on order, but I would consider the Mercedes ELC (successor to this car)
if Mercedes did the following:

Double the range (larger battery)
DCFC should be added/included
Sunroof?
All electric heat/AC something more efficient for winter. The cooling system is superb.
AWD option - dual motors.
Fun to drive/fast
Good storage/utility

 

[oilerlord]

I love my 2014 B-Class ED. 16k miles, no issues.
I am on a 3 year/36k mile lease
No battery degradation, range is 68 miles in winter storms, 110 miles in summer.
Worst ever was 62 miles on range charge driving in a blizzard.
Pre-conditioning helps in winter, but I won't drive without cabin heating. And you cannot turn off the battery heater.
My buyout is $20k after the lease is over -- would I buy it? Yes, but only if I had a guaranteed bullet proof warranty /service plan to 100k miles or more.
I do not like the service department at Mercedes.

I have a Tesla Model 3 on order, but I would consider the Mercedes ELC (successor to this car)
if Mercedes did the following:

Double the range (larger battery)
DCFC should be added/included
Sunroof?
All electric heat/AC something more efficient for winter. The cooling system is superb.
AWD option - dual motors.
Fun to drive/fast
Good storage/utility

Thanks for that.

I live in Canada, and though I'd be parking the car in our heated garage; I'd be driving in some bitterly cold days in winter. I'm looking into installing a a generic diesel hydronic heater. Several EV owners have installed them and it might be possible to do this in a B-Class. These $600 heaters are remarkably efficient, (relatively) easy to install, and use very little fuel.

 

[wtzouris]

I wouldn't bother with the diesel hydronic heater. Really. Because you can basically run a seat heater and the heated windshield and everything gets warm (fan speed on 1) except the foot box, which is freezing. So If someone can figure out how to heat the foot area it would be great. Here is the bigger issue. The car has a battery heating/cooling system that cannot be adjusted. So in cold weather you are burning thousands of watts to keep that battery cozy. I think the issue of winter range is related to the inefficiency of that system. That's what a lot of the plumbing under the front hood is for. I would be really crazy about the car if it had 50-100% more battery.. and DCFC.. and a sunroof.

 

[oilerlord]

I wouldn't bother with the diesel hydronic heater. Really. Because you can basically run a seat heater and the heated windshield and everything gets warm (fan speed on 1) except the foot box, which is freezing. So If someone can figure out how to heat the foot area it would be great. Here is the bigger issue. The car has a battery heating/cooling system that cannot be adjusted. So in cold weather you are burning thousands of watts to keep that battery cozy. I think the issue of winter range is related to the inefficiency of that system. That's what a lot of the plumbing under the front hood is for. I would be really crazy about the car if it had 50-100% more battery.. and DCFC.. and a sunroof.

When I mentioned bitter cold...I meant it. We're talking about -20C. The heater solves two problems, one being able to heat the cabin quickly and efficiently, the other heating the battery preserving range instead of siphoning power from the battery to heat anything. Of course, I'd have to do more research because the last thing I'd want to do is cook the battery. A guy in Wisconsin installed a heater in his i-MiEV with great results. I helped a friend install one in his Jetta TDI, it truly is the "must have" accessory for northern climates. I'm hoping this is possible with a B250e but the last thing I'd want to do is cook the battery. No doubt I'd run into warranty issues.

DCFC and chademo aren't important to me as we don't have quick charging within 1000 miles of where I live. I do have 9.2 kW of solar, and a 7.7kW EVSE installed at home.

 

[GGV]

I have 2015 model (10month+, 11K miles) and mostly pleased:
Fun to drive (powerful, smooth, immediate response, comfortable seats, pretty large lcd screen - useful for back-up camera)
Roomy, carry heavy load (recently carried 360lb of bagged gravel from HomeDepot) - no diff in handling.
Small turning radius.
No battery degradation.
Issues:
1. Software recalls
2. Flimsy interior - my started to rattle on concrete blocks pavement
3. Winter (negative) surprise - loss of 1/3 range: ~70miles vs 110-115 in summer

I'll be looking for longer range EV when my lease in over (and try to be in budget of 30K-40K - as this one). Hope the choice won't be limited by tesla3 and bolt only.

 

[wtzouris]

So is the hydronic heater plumbed into the car? Does it have it's own pump to circulate heat around the battery? I know what you mean about bitter cold, there are some people driving the B250e in Sweden and Norway. (I'm pretty sure they drive 30-40 miles and plug in at work!)

 

[oilerlord]

The heater taps into the cabin coolant line. The heater's pump heats the coolant and circulates it back into the cabin heater reservoir, so the EV's inefficient resistive heater doesn't have to work as hard (or at all) when the cabin calls for heat. Not only does it preserve range in winter, but when you turn on the heat; the air coming out of the vents is hot almost instantly. You can even buy these with a GSM relay where you can send a text to the car to turn it on and off.

Here's a video in a series of an EV owner installing one in his I-MiEV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPIHZE3mn0

 

[wtzouris]

That is very cool. I wonder if you could effectively get 20-25 miles back in winter range by doing this -- you will certainly be more comfortable. It is so cold in Canada I can't imagine using an EV that is parked outside all day and getting reasonable range. It's just a lot of work to make a 36kWh car do the job -- wouldn't it be easier to buy/ wait for a 60 kWh EV like the Chevy Bolt, Tesla Model S (used) , or 2018 Nissan Leaf, or 2019 Tesla Model 3. (I know some of those cars are NOT actual choices) but just saying...

 

[wtzouris]

WAIT are you getting the 2014 B-Class with the $600 range package? Because you will be disappointed if you don't get that. I don't know if it is psychological but that extra 12 miles of range (6 in winter) really helps and it is not going to degrade your battery to use it a lot, especially in cold weather -- the risk is using it too much in hot weather. You may be as little as 55 miles range in extreme conditions on regular (80%) charge.

 

[oilerlord]

WAIT are you getting the 2014 B-Class with the $600 range package? Because you will be disappointed if you don't get that. I don't know if it is psychological but that extra 12 miles of range (6 in winter) really helps and it is not going to degrade your battery to use it a lot, especially in cold weather -- the risk is using it too much in hot weather. You may be as little as 55 miles range in extreme conditions on regular (80%) charge.

B250e's aren't sold in Canada, and even if they were, we don't get any EV subsidies or tax credits...so that leaves me with buying a lease return B-Class in the US, and importing it. Though the range package is a nice-to-have option, it isn't a deal breaker for me, and Mercedes warns about using it anyway. The battery is everything in this car, and I'm going to kid-glove the thing to get as much longevity as possible.

The Bolt and Model 3 are certainly options down the road, but both cars will be over $40K in Canada, and again; no subsidies to bring that price down. Getting a low mileage 2014 at 50% off MSRP makes sense for me.

 

[Stretch2727]

10,000 miles on my car and no noticeable range or battery degradation.

-Annual Battery Certification at the dealer gave me the capacity of the battery @ 28.2 Kwh. This is only 1% degradation in the first year assuming the starting point was 28.5 Kwh.

-My EVSE can measure the amount of energy that a charge takes. I occasionally calculate the Kwh/battery % (Kwh/(end %-start%)) to see if this has changed. It would go lower if the battery had degraded. It varies slightly depending on the charge but has not changed in the time I have had the car. Obviously this number is higher than the actual battery capacity due to the charger losses but it gives an indicator if the battery can store less energy.

I do not charge the car to 100% unless I need it. I try to leave the battery between 40-80%. I do have the range extender and have used 4-5 times in the year I have had the car.

For lithium ion I understand the worst degradation takes place early in the life of the battery and then slows down. If this is the case I am not concerned at all about the battery life on the MB. Looks like it will go 10 years with less than 10% degradation.

 

[wtzouris]

FYI my annual Battery Certification at the dealer ALSO gave me the capacity of the battery @ 28.2 kWh

However, I am the opposite in terms of behavior.
I charge every day 365/days - car is always plugged in to 40 Amp Level 2. (JESLA EVSE)
I use "range charge" (charges battery to 90%) 5-10 times a month in the winter.
2-4 times a month in the summer, probably 60-70 times total in 2015
16k miles in 16 months so far.

I am leasing for three years, but I like the car so much (an my monthly payment is so low) I could see myself extending the lease and /or considering a buyout of $20k IF the dealer gave me an iron clad warranty ($3.5k value) included. I am worried about an unexpected out-of warranty failure that would cost thousands. I know there is a 8 year 100k warranty on battery /motor (DRIVETRAIN?- what is the exact language?) but I feel like the computer (gateway), or On board charger, or inverter, or something like that would be an expensive fix and not included in the fine print.

-William

 

[oilerlord]

I am leasing for three years, but I like the car so much (an my monthly payment is so low) I could see myself extending the lease and /or considering a buyout of $20k IF the dealer gave me an iron clad warranty ($3.5k value) included. I am worried about an unexpected out-of warranty failure that would cost thousands. I know there is a 8 year 100k warranty on battery /motor (DRIVETRAIN?- what is the exact language?) but I feel like the computer (gateway), or On board charger, or inverter, or something like that would be an expensive fix and not included in the fine print.

-William

Those are valid concerns. As I understand the battery warranty...it is 8 years / 100,000 miles and no more than 30% degradation. I haven't found the fine print (haven't looked for it) but I'd assume it's much like Tesla's battery warranty that gets voided due to abuse - intentional or otherwise such as leaving the car fully charged over the summer in the heat of a 120 degree Arizona garage. I'd also assume that MB has software to detect how many times you've done a range charge, and may wiggle out of a warranty claim due to extra battery wear.

I've imported several MB's over the years. In order for the warranty to survive crossing the border, the car has to go through a "Canadian conversion" which entails a local dealer swapping out the cluster, shuffling some paperwork, and a shakedown of ~$3000. Apparently, it's the same process for a B250e, however our dealerships may not be equipped to service them at all...our dealers have received no EV service training, and may not have the tools / diagnostic equipment to work on them (I doubt they even have an EVSE - or for that matter, even know what it is). My local dealer is contacting MB Canada for details about this. MBUSA says there is no issue but I should find out tomorrow. The other snag is the annual and required battery check where the closest "EV authorized" dealership to my knowledge is in Seattle. I can't fathom having to drive 900 miles one way 100 miles at a time, having to stop for at least 27 hours to charge the battery along the way or having to rent a flatbed trailer and tow it there on an annual basis. That alone may become a deal breaker. I really want to own/drive an EV but damn there are a lot of compromises.

I imported my VW TDI and accepted not having a warranty in Canada only because I saved ~$9000. The car is now out of warranty with 50,000 miles and without a single issue in the last three years. What are the odds of having the same experience with a B250e?

 

[JeffRay]

Hey O, ah, the chances of v1 of anything having an issue is more than negligible in my humble opinion. If you do, then it would be worth your carting it to Seattle I suppose.

 

[oilerlord]

Pulled the trigger yesterday on a white 2014 B250e with ~6,000 miles for less than half of MSRP. I'll be importing the car into Canada...I'm pretty confident that I'll be the only person in Alberta driving one of these. I'm having it shipped to Great Falls, MT where I'll be picking up with by buddy's truck & flatbed trailer later this month.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your experience with the B.

 

[JeffRay]

Let us know how it performs for you. Best wishes.

 

[wtzouris]

Congratulations! Sounds like a great car and a great deal. My 2014 has been flawless. Just make sure the December firmware (recall) has been done so you have the newest firmware... No way or knowing by looking at the car without the service records.

 

[oilerlord]

Thanks for that. I'm hoping that my 2014 will be "flawless" too. I've got a feeling that my wife will confiscate the B, and that I could be shopping for another one soon. I can't say enough about the great service that I've had from Mercedes of Reno, and how important (I think) it is to buy one of these from a genuine Mercedes dealership. There was one recall outstanding that they took care of, and have been in constant communication with me throughout the purchase process. I know they are just breaking even on this deal, but nonetheless still care about customer service.

 

[wtzouris]

Just a basic note about Mercedes B-Class quirks: The ABS system sometimes gets fooled when you are in bumper to bumper and shudders a bit as you stop. This is not a big deal because you are going 1 mph. It feels like you've been bumped by the car behind you. It happens once a week. Also, when you first drive the car, the first time you do any significant braking the car does an ABS test and you feel it in the pedal. That's nothing to worry about -- I expect it when I exit my driveway and get to the first stop sign. Lastly, If you are listening to radio and you turn the volume all the way down (to parallel park or back in to your driveway/garage, for instance) unless you press the mute button on the dash or steering wheel the music always restores itself to some low level of volume when you next restart the car. I cannot think of anything else wrong with my car, and I avoid going to the dealer like I avoid flu shots. Once a year for battery re-certification, that's it. The car has been so pleasurable and reliable I will probably extend my lease for up to a year. I seriously doubt Mercedes will do any more work on this car to improve it since the next generation Mercedes ELC will be all new with their battery pack and their own motors.