B250 Owner's reliability experiences
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Imo, the B250e (along with most compliance-car / small battery EV's) were made to be leased because:
- They are usually offered with huge lease incentives, but purchasing the car is typically done close to MSRP.
- You'll return your leased vehicle before battery degradation becomes an issue.
- These cars were produced in such small numbers that a replacement battery pack is ridiculously expensive... last time I checked, about $20K - close to what I paid for the entire used car! This isn't a Camry you can cheaply maintain to 300K miles.
- EV's hemorrhage their resale value like no other vehicle (perhaps Tesla notwithstanding). When you return the lease, the huge depreciation hit is the dealer's problem, not yours.
- Most MB dealerships aren't equipped to service a B250e.
With that said, for me buying a used 6,000 mile B250e made sense because the reasons above made the car inexpensive. Lease returns come in, and dealers dump them...cheap. Let's face it, people can't wrap their heads around buying a car with a winter range down to as low as 50 miles. For the few of us that can, a used short-range EV can be an incredible value.
- They are usually offered with huge lease incentives, but purchasing the car is typically done close to MSRP.
- You'll return your leased vehicle before battery degradation becomes an issue.
- These cars were produced in such small numbers that a replacement battery pack is ridiculously expensive... last time I checked, about $20K - close to what I paid for the entire used car! This isn't a Camry you can cheaply maintain to 300K miles.
- EV's hemorrhage their resale value like no other vehicle (perhaps Tesla notwithstanding). When you return the lease, the huge depreciation hit is the dealer's problem, not yours.
- Most MB dealerships aren't equipped to service a B250e.
With that said, for me buying a used 6,000 mile B250e made sense because the reasons above made the car inexpensive. Lease returns come in, and dealers dump them...cheap. Let's face it, people can't wrap their heads around buying a car with a winter range down to as low as 50 miles. For the few of us that can, a used short-range EV can be an incredible value.
FordAnglia
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Oilerlord,oilerlord said:
Interesting take, while I don't agree with all your points, I'd suggest that MB entered the EV market to "test the waters". When the B250e wasn't a runaway success, they put the brakes on the program.
The B250e appeal (or lack there of) is reflected in the poor resale (and off-lease) value. The premature power train failure is not unique to the B250e as other Tesla derived marques have discovered.
Tesla started from scratch. The B250e uses the second generation motor, and quite frankly Tesla did/doesn't have enough total vehicle miles to understand long term wear and tear. Other brands have literally millions of miles of refinement for their ICE power trains.
If the B250e fits your narrow "sweet spot" for an EV vehicle, as you say, this is a bargain!
Peter,
Greetings from Harrison Hot Springs, Beautiful British Columbia. We're taking a hot tub inspired break this week!
Thanks Peter and Oilerlord,
This helps me get my head around why I find this car so irrationally appealing.
Do you have a sense for wether the premature power train failures are happening in the 2016 or 2017 models. It seems to be a big issue for the 14/15’s. Wondering if Mercedes got the revised versions of these DU’s when the Tesla’s did or if they kept running the original units.
Best,
Hannah
This helps me get my head around why I find this car so irrationally appealing.
Do you have a sense for wether the premature power train failures are happening in the 2016 or 2017 models. It seems to be a big issue for the 14/15’s. Wondering if Mercedes got the revised versions of these DU’s when the Tesla’s did or if they kept running the original units.
Best,
Hannah
FordAnglia
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Hannah,Bugladyhb said:
The optimistic assumption is that Tesla responded to the drive motor failures with a design change. The 2014 Model S (same motor as used by the 2014 B250e, but the Model S is rear wheel drive, the B250e is front wheel drive)
We don't know if those early design motors were carried over to later MY B250e vehicles.
We also don't know if the last run of B250e vehicles (MY 2017) will suffer the same fate as the earlier ones when they have 35k or more miles.
The out of warranty replacement of the EV motor is expensive, and likely to doom the vehicle to "total loss" from an economic point of view.
I'm looking forward to my 2017 B250e running until 2022, when it's California Red HOV sticker expires. Until then? Happy EV Motoring!!
Peter,
Hannah et al.,
If I were to buy one off lease, it would be a plum like my 2017 which will come off lease next year with about 12K miles. I turned my 2014 in with 10K miles and saw it being marketed in FL below my lease buyback price. This supports Peter's point that MBFS sells it at auction for something like $15K or lower. The thing is, you want the fourth year of DU warranty and five years of battery warranty.
One of the members knows where cars go to be auctioned off and armed with a VIN, one can buy an off lease B250e without the used car markup.
If I were to buy one off lease, it would be a plum like my 2017 which will come off lease next year with about 12K miles. I turned my 2014 in with 10K miles and saw it being marketed in FL below my lease buyback price. This supports Peter's point that MBFS sells it at auction for something like $15K or lower. The thing is, you want the fourth year of DU warranty and five years of battery warranty.
One of the members knows where cars go to be auctioned off and armed with a VIN, one can buy an off lease B250e without the used car markup.
Jeff, that's me. Mercedes sends lease returns to Manheim - the largest dealer auction network in North America. I used to import about 10-12 cars per year into Canada from the US.
If you're a dealer, you can find out what other dealers bought the cars for, and how long they've had the unit on their lot among other inside info on the vehicle. Anyway, that's how I bought most of my MB vehicles.
Peter, the B250e was never intended to be a "runaway success", They only built the car because it allowed them to continue their business of selling SUV's. Given we saw little if any marketing dollars directed to the sales of B250e's - It's a safe bet MB lost money on every B250e that rolled off the line. In all candor, every other dealer I spoke with hated selling them. The sales commission was basically non-existent, and just like the car buying public - salespeople really couldn't wrap their heads around a $50,000 100 mile car that takes 3 hours to fill up.
If you're a dealer, you can find out what other dealers bought the cars for, and how long they've had the unit on their lot among other inside info on the vehicle. Anyway, that's how I bought most of my MB vehicles.
Peter, the B250e was never intended to be a "runaway success", They only built the car because it allowed them to continue their business of selling SUV's. Given we saw little if any marketing dollars directed to the sales of B250e's - It's a safe bet MB lost money on every B250e that rolled off the line. In all candor, every other dealer I spoke with hated selling them. The sales commission was basically non-existent, and just like the car buying public - salespeople really couldn't wrap their heads around a $50,000 100 mile car that takes 3 hours to fill up.
Bugladyhb said:
I read about problems with Tesla motors and/or electronics in the RAV 4 EV experiment, but honestly, this is the first time I've heard about this seemingly "big" issue in the 250e - and I did a TON of research before deciding on this particular EV. Like Jeff, I'd consider picking up a low mile 2017 model should my car **** the bed down the road.
FordAnglia
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Just like a "viral video" or "retweet explosion" a product "runaway success" can't be planned.oilerlord said:
If it happens all well and good. My comment was that MB didn't see any success and withdrew support for the B250e. Had it been better received there would have been promotion dollars and dealer rah-rah including dealer training.
As I suspected. I assumed it was to help raise the MB CAFE ratings, and balance sale of gas guzzler vehicles.oilerlord said:
Any volume below, say, 50k units, is probably a loss. Other American brands have stayed away from specialty vehicles for that reason.oilerlord said:
I watched the B250e factory videos on YouTube. There is a staggering investment in tooling and production line equipment, plus the development of the B250e EV bits, even given that the body and interior trim was 'borrowed' from the existing B-Klass vehicles. While the motor, battery, and EV drive system, are of Tesla design, the motor had to be adapted to FWD operation.
Human nature is to take the 'easy' way. Dealers sell the mainstream ICE cars to the average Joe (and Jo-ette) buyers.oilerlord said:
Clearly the members here love their B250e vehicles, and find value. I doubt that was true for a new B250e vehicle sticker price of $40k - $50k. Other EVs (LEAF) or Hybrid drive (PRIUS) were much less costly.
However, think back to 2014. The Tesla Model S was a hot new alternative, the Nissan Leaf Mk.I was more affordable but a bit harder on the eyes. The Nissan Leaf had soon won the 2010 Green Car Vision Award, the 2011 European Car of the Year, the 2011 World Car of the Year, and the 2011–2012 Car of the Year Japan. This had to resonate with main stream ICE brands than needed to get their hands on EV know-how in short order.
BMW created their first mass-produced zero emissions vehicle and was launched as part of BMW's electric vehicle BMW i sub-brand. The i3 debuted as a concept at the 2011 International Motor Show Germany, and production began in July 2013 in Leipzig, Germany.
From a USA point of view MB is the 'other' German car brand (VW group having suffered during 'Diesel-gate' which came to light in late 2014)
EVs are here to stay. Even in the performance class vehicles from Tesla and others are challenging ICE vehicles. While Ford brings us the Ford Mustang Mach-E cross-over SUV EV.
May you live in interesting times!
Peter,
(Heading back for another hot-tub soak and some serious EV thinking)
Oilerlord,
Clearly a person of influence. Who knew you knew the inner secrets of where leased cars go to find their forever homes.
As to big, it is BIG when it happens to the unlucky B250e owner out of warranty and the only recourse is to write the car off and sell the parts on eBay. Fortunately, it is a small minority of these Tesla motors that crap out. Think about it folks, if this was a pervasive problem with Tesla motors, they would be dead and buried by now as a company.
I think MB should stand by their cars and step up here. After all, their engines are legendary for going over 100k without a hiccup. At the very least, they can offer an extended warranty that covers the motors.
Clearly a person of influence. Who knew you knew the inner secrets of where leased cars go to find their forever homes.
As to big, it is BIG when it happens to the unlucky B250e owner out of warranty and the only recourse is to write the car off and sell the parts on eBay. Fortunately, it is a small minority of these Tesla motors that crap out. Think about it folks, if this was a pervasive problem with Tesla motors, they would be dead and buried by now as a company.
I think MB should stand by their cars and step up here. After all, their engines are legendary for going over 100k without a hiccup. At the very least, they can offer an extended warranty that covers the motors.
So far I have been to the dealer 4 times in the past 6 months with my 2016 250e.
First time I got a quote for "maintenance" that was about $1000, which amounted to a glorified fuid top off and new wiper blades. Oh yeah, and a battery "service".
Next time I went in for "buzzing" motor sound, and that resulted in a drivetrain replacement. Then the car "died" on the highway couple days later - according to MB there were bubbles in cooling system. So far it has been couple months and it has been running good. Oh, and I brought it in to help activate CarPlay on it. They were successful (needed firmware update for the head unit) now it works like it should. Head mechanic asked me how I liked the car and how I am using it and was I happy with it. His take was "it is a good car minus Tesla drivetrain. There are cars he replaced the drivetrain 4 times already, but supposedly Tesla has fixed it (problem is with loss of lubricating oil somewhere there). I hope that my new drivetrain lasts longer than 20k miles this time.
Otherwise, it is a fun little car to drive around town.
First time I got a quote for "maintenance" that was about $1000, which amounted to a glorified fuid top off and new wiper blades. Oh yeah, and a battery "service".
Next time I went in for "buzzing" motor sound, and that resulted in a drivetrain replacement. Then the car "died" on the highway couple days later - according to MB there were bubbles in cooling system. So far it has been couple months and it has been running good. Oh, and I brought it in to help activate CarPlay on it. They were successful (needed firmware update for the head unit) now it works like it should. Head mechanic asked me how I liked the car and how I am using it and was I happy with it. His take was "it is a good car minus Tesla drivetrain. There are cars he replaced the drivetrain 4 times already, but supposedly Tesla has fixed it (problem is with loss of lubricating oil somewhere there). I hope that my new drivetrain lasts longer than 20k miles this time.
Otherwise, it is a fun little car to drive around town.
AndyWest,
This is sad and another notch in the return at end of lease column vs. the buy at auction column. I have had a B since 2014 and use them to scoot around town. In the winter, tend to drive my ICE cars so my annual mileage is really low. It basically allows me to avoid public transportation which I rode for many decades but still feel like I am not a horrible polluter. I would be fine with a 200 mile range EV so that will be the next lease.
This is sad and another notch in the return at end of lease column vs. the buy at auction column. I have had a B since 2014 and use them to scoot around town. In the winter, tend to drive my ICE cars so my annual mileage is really low. It basically allows me to avoid public transportation which I rode for many decades but still feel like I am not a horrible polluter. I would be fine with a 200 mile range EV so that will be the next lease.
i recently purchased a 2017 with 26k at time of purchase - now has 33k on it. dealer disclosed that they had to replace the motor. seems to still be an issue with later models. hoping the replacement motor is better!
12.6.21 update
About 14 months into ownership now still loving the car! I did end up having to replace some sensors that were malfunctioning along with the charging port door. I decided to buy a 5 year 60k extended warranty through Mercedes’ for around $6500. I feel good about the purchase knowing most issues will be covered until i hit 100k. Everything I needed to have done thus far was covered by warranty but it would
Have cost around 15k to fix if it were not including the electric motor.
12.6.21 update
About 14 months into ownership now still loving the car! I did end up having to replace some sensors that were malfunctioning along with the charging port door. I decided to buy a 5 year 60k extended warranty through Mercedes’ for around $6500. I feel good about the purchase knowing most issues will be covered until i hit 100k. Everything I needed to have done thus far was covered by warranty but it would
Have cost around 15k to fix if it were not including the electric motor.
Chrisoc,
Hey, great, welcome. It is overall a very reliable car. The problems were generally with the 2014s with the early Tesla motors. Then relatively rare thereafter. The replacement motor could have been new or a refurbished one. If the former, you are all set.
The dealer should have lots of information in their system from the maintenance done by the prior owner. Be sure to ask them about the last annual battery check as it is required to maintain the battery warranty. They can also let you know how far it has degraded below 99 percent. Anything in the middle 90s should be fine.
Enjoy the ride.
Hey, great, welcome. It is overall a very reliable car. The problems were generally with the 2014s with the early Tesla motors. Then relatively rare thereafter. The replacement motor could have been new or a refurbished one. If the former, you are all set.
The dealer should have lots of information in their system from the maintenance done by the prior owner. Be sure to ask them about the last annual battery check as it is required to maintain the battery warranty. They can also let you know how far it has degraded below 99 percent. Anything in the middle 90s should be fine.
Enjoy the ride.
Hi I just bought a late 2014 model that is currently running fine at 47,500 miles. Got a great deal, I think, but have checked MB parts site to see what Tesla motor replacements cost these days in case the grim reaper strikes. They only have one listed for 2015-17 models, not 2014. Aren’t they the same part in all models? Thanks.
Remmisk,
Welcome to the Bclub. I originally leased a 2014 and then a 2017 after the initial lease expired. Fun car, hope you enjoy.
I am wishing yours continues to run fine. The issues on the 2014s tended to happen earlier in its mileage and life so fingers crossed for you.
To answer your question, there was a Tesla motor change and I believe that it explains the demarcation separating the 2014s from the others. It is in one of the threads to confirm if you want to search. Also saw on one too many YouTube videos folks commenting about early Tesla issues with their motors.
My assumption would be that if you run into a motor issue, you have a "totaled" vehicle, value speaking. It would be really lucky to find a 2014 motor refurbished either from a B or from an early Tesla. At that juncture, look to replacing with a 2017 B or one of the new less expensive EVs coming out.
Again, odds are yours is a keeper as a lemon would have shown up earlier.
Enjoy the ride.
Welcome to the Bclub. I originally leased a 2014 and then a 2017 after the initial lease expired. Fun car, hope you enjoy.
I am wishing yours continues to run fine. The issues on the 2014s tended to happen earlier in its mileage and life so fingers crossed for you.
To answer your question, there was a Tesla motor change and I believe that it explains the demarcation separating the 2014s from the others. It is in one of the threads to confirm if you want to search. Also saw on one too many YouTube videos folks commenting about early Tesla issues with their motors.
My assumption would be that if you run into a motor issue, you have a "totaled" vehicle, value speaking. It would be really lucky to find a 2014 motor refurbished either from a B or from an early Tesla. At that juncture, look to replacing with a 2017 B or one of the new less expensive EVs coming out.
Again, odds are yours is a keeper as a lemon would have shown up earlier.
Enjoy the ride.
Jeff,
Thanks so much for your response- you may be the defacto world’s leading expert on BED ownership having leased the entire series so your opinion counts.
Oddly I find the mystique of these vehicles fascinating. As much as I feel nervous about motor problems I feel like I’m curating a museum of electric car history by keeping it rolling.
I am also encouraged to hear about the shop in San Marcos CA that can do component level repairs if the need arises. You would think this will be the next trend in auto repair if the skilled labor becomes available.
Again thanks for keeping this forum alive!
Thanks so much for your response- you may be the defacto world’s leading expert on BED ownership having leased the entire series so your opinion counts.
Oddly I find the mystique of these vehicles fascinating. As much as I feel nervous about motor problems I feel like I’m curating a museum of electric car history by keeping it rolling.
I am also encouraged to hear about the shop in San Marcos CA that can do component level repairs if the need arises. You would think this will be the next trend in auto repair if the skilled labor becomes available.
Again thanks for keeping this forum alive!