There is a dedicated inverter to charge the 12V battery. That, the hvac system, and the traction motor run off of the traction battery. The motor has its own 3 phase inverter. The motor, charger, and battery are Tesla supplied. Every thing is Mercedes. Many parts are adapted from existing cars. For example the nose cone has the same part number as a GL55 but it costs a lot more. Always get the actual part number from parts and search for a better price.
Without restarting, consult workshop
- Thread starter TheStig
- Start date
Help Support B-Class Electric Drive Forum:
Just to clear a couple things up as I understand them.
The traction battery is high voltage, something like 400V DC. The accessory battery is traditional 12V, and a small one at that if you look under the hood. I may have seen lawn tractors with bigger 12V batteries but since there is no combustion engine to crank over on a -5 degree morning a big 12v battery isn't needed.
There is a DC to DC converter that "charges" the 12V battery from the traction battery at the same rate it is being drawn from. This is akin to the alternator on a non electric car but is an electrical device instead of a belt driven alternator. If you draw 20 amps off the 12v battery, this DC to DC converter will supply 20 amps @ 12v and keep the net at 0 in simple terms.
You can hear this "charge" process frequently when opening doors and forcing the lights and such to come on without the key in and the car "on", you hear the "click click" of a contactor which appears to be enabling this DC/DC converter to keep you from draining the small 12v battery.
And inverter is a different thing, it converts DC to AC. If you have one those little cigarette lighter plug to AC outlet devices to power something like a laptop, that is an inverter to make make AC from DC.
I'm not up on the details but I understand the Tesla traction motor is an AC induction type, so the car must have a massive inverter between the high voltage traction battery and the motor.
The traction battery is high voltage, something like 400V DC. The accessory battery is traditional 12V, and a small one at that if you look under the hood. I may have seen lawn tractors with bigger 12V batteries but since there is no combustion engine to crank over on a -5 degree morning a big 12v battery isn't needed.
There is a DC to DC converter that "charges" the 12V battery from the traction battery at the same rate it is being drawn from. This is akin to the alternator on a non electric car but is an electrical device instead of a belt driven alternator. If you draw 20 amps off the 12v battery, this DC to DC converter will supply 20 amps @ 12v and keep the net at 0 in simple terms.
You can hear this "charge" process frequently when opening doors and forcing the lights and such to come on without the key in and the car "on", you hear the "click click" of a contactor which appears to be enabling this DC/DC converter to keep you from draining the small 12v battery.
And inverter is a different thing, it converts DC to AC. If you have one those little cigarette lighter plug to AC outlet devices to power something like a laptop, that is an inverter to make make AC from DC.
I'm not up on the details but I understand the Tesla traction motor is an AC induction type, so the car must have a massive inverter between the high voltage traction battery and the motor.
The motor inverter is integrated into the motor assembly and it is liquid cooled, actually there is three separate inverters. when the car is floored they supply hundreds of amps so they need the cooling.
At the Tesla web site you can find cut away drawings. The motor in our car is detuned from what Tesla uses in their cars. So far I have not heard of motor problems like the RAV4 EV has experienced so hopefully Tesla supplied fixed motors to Mercedes. It seemed to be a bearing issue with early Tesla motors.
At the Tesla web site you can find cut away drawings. The motor in our car is detuned from what Tesla uses in their cars. So far I have not heard of motor problems like the RAV4 EV has experienced so hopefully Tesla supplied fixed motors to Mercedes. It seemed to be a bearing issue with early Tesla motors.
Just wanted to post an update...the error message has not returned. So far so good. Clearly, my car was sitting on the dealer lot for a long time, and the 12V battery became weak. Should the "consult workshop" message come back, I'll probably just replace the battery. Thanks again for your help with this.
So I had this red warning on the cockpit exactly one hour ago: "Without restarting, consult workshop"
I had just plugged the key and triggered the engine, to go back home from work.
I did as it said - called the workshop, arranged for them to pick up the car, and tried anyway driving home because the car was still moving, even if E-CELL indicator showed somewhere below 50%, and engine power was much less.
I didn't restart the engine as it said but kept it on from when I saw the warning,
fearing it could have compromised something, or the car couldn't start back again.
But when I got home... I turned off the engine, out of habit!
And what?! Magically when turning back on, the engine started regularly,
E-CELL indicator full, power going regularly again - and no warning!
So if I understand from this thread - it might be a problem with the 12V battery,
perhaps not correctly starting all cell packs due to some software bug / low power?
(could be, as my car sitted to the dealer for long time before anyone drove it and the 12V battery might be low)
Now I'm hesitant in what to do - wait for this to happen again / bring to the workshop anyway?
(though I'm under the impression they have very small experience with electric cars,
mine is the first they ever sold and they don't even have a charger as they asked to bring mine)
Might be nothing serious, I would suspect, but that warning was scary, perhaps it was badly phrased?
Any suggestions?
I seem to understand from your past experiences this issue solved on its own most times.
I do imply correctly or should I be concerned?
Thank you for any input
I had just plugged the key and triggered the engine, to go back home from work.
I did as it said - called the workshop, arranged for them to pick up the car, and tried anyway driving home because the car was still moving, even if E-CELL indicator showed somewhere below 50%, and engine power was much less.
I didn't restart the engine as it said but kept it on from when I saw the warning,
fearing it could have compromised something, or the car couldn't start back again.
But when I got home... I turned off the engine, out of habit!
And what?! Magically when turning back on, the engine started regularly,
E-CELL indicator full, power going regularly again - and no warning!
So if I understand from this thread - it might be a problem with the 12V battery,
perhaps not correctly starting all cell packs due to some software bug / low power?
(could be, as my car sitted to the dealer for long time before anyone drove it and the 12V battery might be low)
Now I'm hesitant in what to do - wait for this to happen again / bring to the workshop anyway?
(though I'm under the impression they have very small experience with electric cars,
mine is the first they ever sold and they don't even have a charger as they asked to bring mine)
Might be nothing serious, I would suspect, but that warning was scary, perhaps it was badly phrased?
Any suggestions?
I seem to understand from your past experiences this issue solved on its own most times.
I do imply correctly or should I be concerned?
Thank you for any input
This could be the problem from 2014/2015 -- maybe your car was never fixed? It is most likely 100% software. re-start the car and the warning goes away. If fact, while driving, press OK on the steering wheel to get rid of the warning. What Model Year is your B-Class and has it ever been to Mercedes for the recall software fix? How many miles on your car? My car warned several times in 2015 while driving, but nothing ever broke, after the software recall/fix, no more warnings.
Thank you wtzouris,
I got the car in late november, but the car is a 2015 model,
it was sitting there since a couple years.
Very few miles still,
I'm in EU so I go with Kms, I think I made about 2000 kms.
Can't find my VIN in that database, I assume it only works for american cars
I did look in this forum and read about the sudden-loss-of-power issue, before purchasing the car,
which scared me a lot, and asked the dealer to make sure the software was updated before selling me the car.
And he said they "routinely do these software updates before giving out cars" so I had to be fine,
but I wouldn't trust this blindly and wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
I really would love a way to check software version on my own,
as I've learned in this forum you have to bring the car to workshop just to know this..
Not sure if wating for this to happen again (hoping it doesn't)
or bringing to workshop to make them check software / batteries .. whatever they are able to check (hoping they know their way in!)
Did the "sudden loss of power" issue also happened when igniting the car,
I seem to remember reading it only happened "while driving"?
It also gave that "red warning" only without any lights / other warnings on?
I'm also thinking it's very likely a software issue (reboot and it's gone)
or maybe something in the "ignition" procedure like the 12V battery failing to trigger some packs of cells (assuming this is possible)
I got the car in late november, but the car is a 2015 model,
it was sitting there since a couple years.
Very few miles still,
I'm in EU so I go with Kms, I think I made about 2000 kms.
Can't find my VIN in that database, I assume it only works for american cars
I did look in this forum and read about the sudden-loss-of-power issue, before purchasing the car,
which scared me a lot, and asked the dealer to make sure the software was updated before selling me the car.
And he said they "routinely do these software updates before giving out cars" so I had to be fine,
but I wouldn't trust this blindly and wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
I really would love a way to check software version on my own,
as I've learned in this forum you have to bring the car to workshop just to know this..
Not sure if wating for this to happen again (hoping it doesn't)
or bringing to workshop to make them check software / batteries .. whatever they are able to check (hoping they know their way in!)
Did the "sudden loss of power" issue also happened when igniting the car,
I seem to remember reading it only happened "while driving"?
It also gave that "red warning" only without any lights / other warnings on?
I'm also thinking it's very likely a software issue (reboot and it's gone)
or maybe something in the "ignition" procedure like the 12V battery failing to trigger some packs of cells (assuming this is possible)
They've just picked it up
They said it's better giving a look anyway, and better me not to drive it until they check, and I agree.
Will let you know results for the archive!
(I bet they won't find a thing - but I've at least pushed for them to check software version and update it if necessary!)
They said it's better giving a look anyway, and better me not to drive it until they check, and I agree.
Will let you know results for the archive!
(I bet they won't find a thing - but I've at least pushed for them to check software version and update it if necessary!)
No, it was warm and sunny this morning, I'd say around 16/18 °C
I had also moved the car few minutes before for about 10 kms, so it should have "warmed up" a bit.
Had the feeling it was something wrong happening while turning the key to ignite the engine,
not sure what, perhaps a small different noise than usual.. but not sure
Car in workshop now, but still not diagnosed.. hope to know something by tomorrow
I had also moved the car few minutes before for about 10 kms, so it should have "warmed up" a bit.
Had the feeling it was something wrong happening while turning the key to ignite the engine,
not sure what, perhaps a small different noise than usual.. but not sure
Car in workshop now, but still not diagnosed.. hope to know something by tomorrow
snowds
Well-known member
My car just came out after a week and a half in the shop for a 12V battery issue. I got the visit workshop-do not drive message, except that it had a picture of the 12V battery. In the manual, it says for that icon, do not drive the car, and do not tow the car. I guess one is supposed to just sit there and look at it. MB sent out a flat-bed to pick it up. The 12V battery passed all tests, but the car kept generating error codes related to the 12V system, so of course, MB wouldn't authorize a change of the battery. After a week of this back and forth with MB, the dealer just changed the 12V battery. Problem solved.
eheh definitely paradoxical :lol:
I suspect it's going to end up in a similar way...
today they said they couldn't test the car until it wasn't fully charged (?)
...and they don't have a charger :|
So they had to use the low power socket and wait an inexplicable amount of time,
since the car was already 60/70% charged and so far it didn't complete charging up in 1 workday + 3 hr (and possibly a night) they are having the car now. (?)
But most importantly: they say they had that red warning again (topic subject) while checking!
And are now waiting for input by the headquarters.. which will be closed until monday.
I'll suggest them to check the 12V battery when they'll say they are clueless monday...
hope it will end up good and fast.
I suspect it's going to end up in a similar way...
today they said they couldn't test the car until it wasn't fully charged (?)
...and they don't have a charger :|
So they had to use the low power socket and wait an inexplicable amount of time,
since the car was already 60/70% charged and so far it didn't complete charging up in 1 workday + 3 hr (and possibly a night) they are having the car now. (?)
But most importantly: they say they had that red warning again (topic subject) while checking!
And are now waiting for input by the headquarters.. which will be closed until monday.
I'll suggest them to check the 12V battery when they'll say they are clueless monday...
hope it will end up good and fast.
small follow-up:
had the car back a few days ago, they did the "software updates"
they said it was missing two important updates, and this should fix the issue
(as expected the seller didn't simply do those updates before selling me the car,
as I asked and asked after reading this forum,
...they always wait for issues to *happen*)
crossing fingers not to see that warning again :|
had the car back a few days ago, they did the "software updates"
they said it was missing two important updates, and this should fix the issue
(as expected the seller didn't simply do those updates before selling me the car,
as I asked and asked after reading this forum,
...they always wait for issues to *happen*)
crossing fingers not to see that warning again :|
Joe
Active member
I got this same message "Without starting engine again, consult workshop" on 4/16/17. I had seen this message 2 or 3 times in the last few weeks. Each time, I turned off engine, waited, restarted and message went away.
On 4/16, I backed the car out of my driveway, parked on street and turned off. Waited a minute, restarted and message was still there and this time the E-Cell meter began to drop, down to a quarter. (My car was half charged; about 43 miles range remaining). The E-Cell had only dropped on me before when my battery was running low (down to 10% or reserve warning), and it was never as low as a quarter. So, I was concerned and left the car parked. Came back 6 hours later and same error message and low E-Cell. I called MBrace and they towed car to my dealership.
On Monday, the Service Adviser called with Technician next to her and asked me some questions. During the conversation, it appears they cannot tell when an error code occurred (cannot associate error code to date/time). I directly asked her, do you know when an error code occurred, is there a date/time stamp? Her answer was "No". (I am shocked!).
Anyways, today is Wed and I have not heard back. I assume they don't know how to fix it and are waiting for manufacturer...
I have a 2014 with 33,000 miles. I am original owner and got it Dec 2014. In my first year, there was another error code (software update) that I encountered, otherwise the B class has worked fine for me.
(On 4/16, the morning temp was 60 degrees F and 75 in the afternoon).
On 4/16, I backed the car out of my driveway, parked on street and turned off. Waited a minute, restarted and message was still there and this time the E-Cell meter began to drop, down to a quarter. (My car was half charged; about 43 miles range remaining). The E-Cell had only dropped on me before when my battery was running low (down to 10% or reserve warning), and it was never as low as a quarter. So, I was concerned and left the car parked. Came back 6 hours later and same error message and low E-Cell. I called MBrace and they towed car to my dealership.
On Monday, the Service Adviser called with Technician next to her and asked me some questions. During the conversation, it appears they cannot tell when an error code occurred (cannot associate error code to date/time). I directly asked her, do you know when an error code occurred, is there a date/time stamp? Her answer was "No". (I am shocked!).
Anyways, today is Wed and I have not heard back. I assume they don't know how to fix it and are waiting for manufacturer...
I have a 2014 with 33,000 miles. I am original owner and got it Dec 2014. In my first year, there was another error code (software update) that I encountered, otherwise the B class has worked fine for me.
(On 4/16, the morning temp was 60 degrees F and 75 in the afternoon).
Joe, you did not say so let me ask. Did you bring your car in for the recall and did your dealer do the required software updates. This was early 2016 if my faulty memory is correct? Otherwise, your issue is the most serious save the car crapping out at speed. I got your message but it went away after restart and then never reappeared after the recall software update.
Joe
Active member
Yes, I got the recall in Dec 2015 and that was fixed.
It has been 3 weeks and I am missing my carpool sticker.
They spent the 1st week trying to figure out the problem and waiting on MBUSA. It was determined that I need a new electric motor.
The part was suppose to arrive by end of week 2.
Well, I just spoke to the Service Director and for whatever reason(s), the part is not here and is now scheduled to arrive end of week 3.
The Service Director has been courteous and responsive and he assures me the 'right' people are aware and involved in getting this part.
At the same time, I did tell him I will be calling MBUSA today...
It has been 3 weeks and I am missing my carpool sticker.
They spent the 1st week trying to figure out the problem and waiting on MBUSA. It was determined that I need a new electric motor.
The part was suppose to arrive by end of week 2.
Well, I just spoke to the Service Director and for whatever reason(s), the part is not here and is now scheduled to arrive end of week 3.
The Service Director has been courteous and responsive and he assures me the 'right' people are aware and involved in getting this part.
At the same time, I did tell him I will be calling MBUSA today...
