wtzouris said:
So from your 2012 Leaf you are thinking about a 2014-2015 Mercedes B-Class ED? It would be a good choice, it has amazing air conditioning (cooling) -- very efficient. (I use it all the time with absolutely little or no impact on range)
Is Nissan serious about thermally regulating their batteries?
Why not a BMW i3 BEV? That would do great in hot weather. a couple of more choices soon: Chevy Bolt, re-freshed 2017 Model Year BMW i3 (improved battery), Talking about Tesla Model 3 or 2019 BMW i3 (redesign) or 2017 Mercedes B-Class ED (redesign) is just speculation.
I think the simple answer to your question is yes, a used B-Class ED is one of quite a few options I am considering, once I give the leased Leaf back within the next 2-3 months.
The more complicated answer:
- Noting that I retain a cheap (~$2k) used gasoline vehicle for longer faster trips, so in the long-term an EV is mandatory (because I am committed to plugging in), but in the short term, doing absolutely nothing to replace the Leaf is definitely an option.
- As you note, there are a lot of options. I feel like someone who has had a very long cell phone contract that has been ok in many respects, but which has been very much in need of improvement in other respects. When it is up, I am trying to resist talking myself into a solution that will be more displeasing to me than necessary. It will have to be somewhat displeasing to me because I think the vehicles I'd really like to own are not yet in the marketplace (such as a plug-in pickup truck, ideally with a roomy back seat, as just one example), and when they do get there, it will be another 5-10 years before they come into my price range on the used market.
Also, mostly for the moment I seem to be focused on what to me are more economical options. Each of us has different considerations when it comes to finances, geographic situation, transportation, etc. To me an economical solution means used vehicles below $10k that do not require me to own (and pay for keeping up) a second vehicle for longer quicker trips. I'd also like something with a back seat that is sufficiently large that it is respectful of the comfort of the whole family.
So - a used BEV under 30-40 kWh is out because in my geography (and with the lack of DCQC along my routes) it means I need a second vehicle. A used Volt is an option, but the interior volume is limited and the back seat (IIRC) is an insult so it's possible I won't do it. Because it has more rear-seat room and is coming down to the $10k level in used vehicles, a used C-Max Energi is becoming a (until my next used EV) possibility despite the poor all-electric range.
Used BEVS in the 27-36 kWh range are (based on my geography) borderline in terms of forcing me to retain a gasoline vehicle. For example, I have one key regular drive where, after I leave the final available DCQC (which is itself not always reliable), there is a 60 mile uphill (about 1000 feet, net) highway drive to get home, with only a couple of painfully slow L2s along the way. In my gasoline car, this drive takes about 55-65 minutes. In a 24 kWh Leaf, it takes about 3-5 hours, factoring in some quality time at a 24 hour McDonald's while the local slow Blink L2 and slow Leaf 3.3 kW have a nice heart-to-heart.
So, this example from my area hopefully helps illustrate a little why I am trying to be careful as to knowing a bit more about what I might be getting into with a B-Class Mercedes. Could it make that drive I just described without range concern? (Yes, I think on frontage road (about 1.5 hours) @45 mph. Perhaps not, on the highway at 65 mph. The prices on the used Mercedes (and for that matter on the used BMWs) will be too much for me, but I am trying to avoid backing myself into a corner with inflexibility. I hate paying the brunt of the depreciation on a car, but it's a complicated decision as I have been waiting a long time to drive electric. Thanks for the information about the A/C, that is something I will try to keep in mind.
A somewhat separate but important part of the reason I am asking and discussing is that I am industry-involved. I've been discussing EVS in forums for about 20 years and EVs became part of what I do. I got a Leaf a few years ago (even though it got me into paying the depreciation on a new car, which I don't like doing) in part because it seemed in-line with making sure I understood some of the issues first-hand and better, if I could afford it. I mention this separate reason not to dwell on it, but by way of briefly disclaiming. During those years, I have found that when I need information that part of the solution is to ask the drivers and some of them can help with solid information. I then just need to be careful to make sure I understand what I'm reading and trust my own views if something looks like it needs further investigation or revising of the question.
On the comparison question with which I started the thread, I think we'll eventually get an empirical comparison from Tony Williams and others (eg: under the same real-world conditions, which vehicle will go further) and that will settle the question. At this point it amounts in part to a bit of fun speculation. I haven't formed a firm view. Assuming temperate weather conditions, level ground, etc., to me it appears that the Leaf has an edge in efficiency (though I could be wrong about this), but the Mercedes has a clear edge (about 4.5 or 5.5 kWh?) in usable battery when charged to its fullest level. Is the Mercedes that much less efficient under temperate steady conditions? It sounds like it is rated at 87 EPA miles using 28 kWh whereas the 2015 Leaf is rated at 84 EPA miles using just 22.x kWh.
I can't speak as much to the comparison in ranges when conditions change to below-freezing.
On the question of Leaf thermal regulation, I don't know whether Nissan has plans to change this. Note that the drivers seem to like the Lizard formulation so even though (AFAIK) so far Nissan does not seem to have equipped a car with more aggressive thermal regulation, it's possible that the newer formulation avoids much or all of the concerns in this area. This also goes back though to the fact that many of my conversations are with drivers in this hot weather area. I don't know about the cold weather, and in the long run even in the hot weather, and even with the drivers so pleased, it remains to be seen in the long run how the batteries will hold up.
