couple questions for my new B class

[erwinsc]

Hello everyone,
this is my first post here and I've right now discovered this forum after placing an order
for a mercedes B class electric drive about one week ago!

As you may argue, I'm an eco-conscious guy, and very excited for my first all-electric vehicle.
B class seemed the best choice available for me, matching good range, performances, safety, likeability.

If I had discovered this forum before, I'd have spent last month reading every single post

Anyway, I have a couple of questions I'm finding hard times having replies from Mercedes support and local dealers,
so I thought actual owners could have shed some more light, hopefully without too struggle.

1) if you have mounted the optional "MO-extended" tires - do you recommend it? I'm not talking about the "rigidity" and "bump feeling" of these kinda run-flat tires, I could live with it, but more on their grip on the road.
Do they provide the same "grip" in curves, the same level of car handling you have with regular tires?
How do you find yourself with them?
This would be a deal-breaker for me, as I'm mostly concerned about safety when I chose this option
(I think they could be safer if I get in some big spike or something, turning in no possible explosion-crash)

2) I totally dislike leather. I've chosen cloth interiors, but I'm under the impression the "armrest" is anyway leather covered.
Dealers told me there's no option for changing or removing it.
I'm talking of this detail:

Can you confirm it is real leather? (not even sure how one can really "tell" one from the other actually...)
or is it "fake leather" (meaning 100% synthetic - not PU-covered leather)
I would really like having no leather elements in my car.

Since my B class is still "to produce", I have some weeks to make these kind of small modifications if needed.

Not sure if this is the correct place for this kind of topics,
sorry if it is not.

Thank you very much everyone!
(also for buying an EV )

 

[JeffRay]

Me thinks it is leather. You may be able to replace with aftermarket non-leather as our MBe uses many components from the gas powered B-Class and C-Class. I saw a leatherette one on eBay.

 

[erwinsc]

Thanks very much,
my eyes would say the same, though one dealer told me that was synthetic leather
(after knowing I didn't want leather... so not really sure about his reliability :?)

Replacing the component is something I didn't think of,
thank you for the idea, this would be my last chance,
hope that wouldn't be too difficult to do in case.

Though I would prefer not supporting that kind of market (leather elements) with my purchase at all,
but, yeah, I know you can't have everything...

 

[wtzouris]

It's not leather, if that makes you feel better. This is a high wear location and it is very likely "Mercedes Leather" aka vinyl.

The Michelin MOE tires are good for 3 seasons, they are hard wearing and good. But Winter time, it has nothing to do with run-flat, get a dedicated winter compound tire. They say soft in the winter and grip grip grip. I use Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 RunFlat. 225/50R-17
Another good choice is NOKIAN WR A3 TIRES also RunFlat.

The car is FWD with a lot of torque so grip is all relative, the car will chirp the front tires easily. But I never "slide" around turns (drift) unless I am using the Michelin MOE tires in the snow and ice. That is why I got the Nokians.


 

[erwinsc]

thank you wtzouris,

seems like a good advice, I'll likely purchase an additional pair of winter tires, though snow is rarely seen here, and I like staying home with a warm fire in those situations

if the grip in curve with MOE tires is "solid" and you never ended up "drifting" a bit even in difficult curves
(it happens on my now-leaving BMW with run-flats, and i drive at very moderate speed)
they are definitely fine for me.

Yeah, I expect them chirping while accelerating due to the high torque, and high weight of the vehicle maybe,
this also happens frequently with aforementioned BMW, particularly when stopping and then accelerating right when going uphill.

As for leather - your impression is very welcome,
though it's a different opinion from previous answer,
so I guess there's no certainty on the matter?
I would bet nobody has ever looked the "back" of that material to see if that's man-made fabric and so be 100% sure
(not asking anyone to rip off their interiors, of course :lol

I know it may sound as a silly question, for anyone not concerned by this, so please forgive my pedantry..

 

[JeffRay]

Ask dealer to confirm it is something called ARTICO man-made leather upholstery which seems standard on the gas powered B-class cars per the specs available on the internet.

Could have fooled me.

 

[erwinsc]

Thank you Jeff,
looks like you (and wtzouris) are guessing right,
I've just received this info from the Mercedes customer support regarding B-Class interiors:

eco-leather ARTICO is not real lether but a synthetic material,
made of a base textile fabric covered with polyurethane or PVC.
This material is more resistant to water and sunrays than real leather.
ARTICO is also available paired with textile interiors,
in this setup the seat is textile-covered
while side supports are made of ARTICO eco-leather.

I didn't ask about ARTICO at all in my info request,
I asked general info on eventual leather-elements with cloth interiors option,
given they wrote me this answer, I would guess those elements are made of ARTICO.

And looking at this image:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/haf9gye5lndz3hd/Bclass_int.jpg?dl=0

(left= complete "artico", right= cloth)
it would seem the armrest is exactly the same

and also given there's no "real leather" option in that crystal-gray color
I would assume the armrest is made of Artico synthetic leather too

 

[TheStig]

Benz used to call their fake leather MBTex or something like that. As described it is a synthetic material that looks and feels (but does not smell) like leather. It is very durable, my kids have "tested" it with lollipops, crayons, pen, pencil, juice, crackers, whatever you got it wipes off easy with a light spray of simple green.

The only negative I have with MBTex is it doesn't breathe well, as in it gets hot and you can sweat. Only noticeable in the summer.

 

[erwinsc]

Awesome, thanks!

I'm perfectly fine with this material then, even though it looks like leather,
seems like it has some quite interesting features,
and I'm definitely happy knowing nobody has been skinned to allow my elbow sitting comfortably

In fact it's also more convenient price-wise, now that I've noticed that real-leather options cost a considerable amount of bucks more,
I feel stupid not having noticed artico option being "artificial", and that those additional elements paired with cloth are made of that same material.

As for sweating, I would guess cloth to be the most transpirant, and I've always found it perfectly fine and likeable,
I guess people may not like it due to being more difficult to clean in case of "accidents" or kids testing :lol:

Thank you all for your impressions and suggestions, I'd say my question 2) is solved!

 

[oilerlord]

"B class seemed the best choice available for me, matching good range, performances, safety, likeability."

It was for us too. There aren't many choices available for BEV's in the small SUV segment. We gave honorary mention to the Soul EV, but couldn't get past it's goofy shape. Everything else (short of a Tesla) had too many compromises for us.

We've had our B for a couple of months. Love it.

Congrats & enjoy the car.

 

[erwinsc]

Thank you! Great to hear people satisfied by this choice.
I've never even seen one for real (speaking of the electric one, of course)
and this is the first time I purchase a car mainly deciding from the info gathered online..
so hearing your experience is a relief, and exciting too

My second choice was a BMW i3
(same here, Tesla was first in the list, but Model S was way over budget and also a bit "over the top")
but couldn't get past i3's appearance as well...
plus the small space in rear zone both for passengers and baggage (more than enough in B class),
and I was a bit skeptical about its skinny tires and carbon fiber chassis,
kudos to BMW for such innovation in lightweight and recyclable materials,
but I'm not sure if this resulted in some little compromise for safety, as EU crash tests reported lower scores than those of B class,
and, to the argument again, you couldn't get rid of the leather steering wheel either.

Looks like in the future there will be plenty more choice for EVs,
current choice of mine was also a bit "forced" by the lack of competitors in the same class,
but in all I feel very satisfied with this choice and can't wait to receive the car!

 

[oilerlord]

I imported my B electric into Canada (I bought mine in Nevada). We have the gasoline B250 but the electric model isn't sold here.

I had some interest in the i3, but BMW Canada makes it very costly to import their cars here. Before an imported BMW can be registered, you need to pay a dealership a "Canadian Conversion" fee - which is essentially the cost to replace the instrument cluster, which can range from $3,000 - $5000 depending on the model. Mercedes does the same thing, but only to re-instate the car's warranty. As no M-B dealership in Alberta is equipped to work on the B250e, it was a moot point, so I just kept the $3,000 in my pocket, and will flatbed the car to Seattle should any major problems arise.

I admire BMW's efforts creating a very light EV, but to your point, it is an "over the top" effort. They did a lot of things right with the car, but they should have built the car around a minimum 40kWh battery pack instead of going with that dumb "range extender" gasoline engine. No doubt that would have made for a more expensive car, which may have hurt their compliance numbers (which is probably the biggest reason they laid up). Along with it's strange appearance, my experience with new BMW's models is that they tend to break down a lot. I didn't want to become a i3 beta tester.

My B250e sort of flies under the radar here...I don't think anyone on the road recognizes that it's an EV, unless it's parked in the EV parking stall at Ikea. I like that my car doesn't scream "EV".

Make sure that your dealer activates the car's "M-Brace" feature along with the Verizon telematics so that you can monitor charging and be able to pre-heat or cool the car from your phone. Wtzouris put me on to the "EV Access" app that works very well for me. To that point, there are a lot of great people on this forum that are happy to help you get the most out of your car, and I'll do all I can to pay that forward. Welcome.

The future does look bright for EV's. I'm not particularly a GM fan but I think their new Bolt with it's 60kWh battery will be a hit. The small crossover segment is very popular too, and though the Bolt may not be as good as the Tesla Model 3, people won't have to wait until 2019 to buy one.

 

[erwinsc]

my experience with new BMW's models is that they tend to break down a lot. I didn't want to become a i3 beta tester

:lol:
can confirm this on my own skin, my current BMW car was a "new model" (lots of years ago) and I had lot of hassles with the engine
(all was solved -luckily- within warranty)
but have been fully satisfied with the car otherwise.
Would have sticked with BMW, wasn't for the considerations I was mentioning above.
I'm european and we (obviously) have no issues with availability / duties on BMW cars here.

But here electric cars are still very rare, I have seen only one around so far..
my nearest charging station is about twenty Km.. but hopefully I won't need that.

I like that my car doesn't scream "EV"

Exactly the same for me.
Don't want a gleaming futuristic spaceship hitting the road with all people pointing at you,
just want a plain regular car - with electric drive.
I think Mercedes got this right here, but maybe it's just we people around this forum liking this choice,
because looking at sales (in EU, at least) they have been wrong, or made bad marketing, as i3 sold a lot more.

Thank you for your suggestions, and everyone for their kindness in replying!
I would have annoyed you and other guys here with loads of questions if I only discovered this forum before placing the order :lol:

I agree, Bolt was under my radar in fact, if it was about six-months earlier to come, I would have considered it seriously
(this, and the fact that Chrysler is no more present in EU - but we'll get the Bolt anyway by Opel, it seems, as their new "Ampera").

I think we are a bit of precursors here by purchasing the first "reasonably good" EVs on the market,
while Bolt and Model 3 will probably set new standards for the next 3-4 years to come,
then all the others will likely follow,
the EV revolution begins

 

[oilerlord]

I think Mercedes got this right here, but maybe it's just we people around this forum liking this choice,
because looking at sales (in EU, at least) they have been wrong, or made bad marketing, as i3 sold a lot more.

That's fair.

We installed a fairly large rooftop solar system last August, and I was been researching EV's for a long time before buying the B in June. Our choices in Canada are very limited, so while visiting a friend in San Diego, we had the opportunity to drive a bunch of EV's from the Spark EV all the up to a Model S. We LOVED the Tesla P90D, as it was an Amazing car - which it should be for USD$110K.

Of all the (used / affordable) EV's we tested (Spark, Soul, Volt, Focus, C-Max, Leaf), the B was the best fit for us. It would be "perfect" if it had a 60kWh battery and had access to the Tesla Supercharger network, but if that were the case, the car would have cost a LOT more money.

I don't think it's a matter of marketing because the B250e and i3 only exist as compliance cars. Both are sold in numbers just large enough to allow the companies to comply with CAFE and zero emission standards in the US - to allow them to continue selling sell their profitable SUV's. Mercedes isn't going to throw a lot of marketing dollars at the B250e since they already lose their shirts on every one they sell.

 

[GlennD]

I live in Southern California. Last week I received what looks like a mass mailing post card to the Mercedes mailing list. It was offering a B250E lease for $369 for 36 months. Since I already own one I certainly am not part of the target audience .

I saw on MNL that they are selling a whole fifty cars a month. Even for a CARB car that is very poor. That said in January 2015 I got a hell of a deal on my 2014 car lease. Mercedes must get at least a few out there to balance the ICE cars they normally sell.

We will see what is out there when my lease expires. All sorts of EV's with greater range have been announced. I could certainly live with another Mercedes car. I love the car but more range would be nice.

 

[oilerlord]

I picked up my 6,000 mile 2014 B250e for only $23K. Has all options except leather & range charge. The car was a former M-B employee lease, and the M-B dealership that picked it up on a whim from the Manheim auction really knew nothing about the car. The dealership is also located in a somewhat desolate highway town (Reno, NV) that has a limited market for EV's, so it sat on the lot for nearly six months before they finally accepted my lowball offer just to get rid of it.

I have keen interest in the Chevy Bolt, and think that continued public ignorance about EV's may work to my advantage again keeping sales low and depreciation high. Considering that the depreciation on my car was ~60% off MSRP - I'd jump at the chance to pick up a low mileage 2017 Bolt with it's 60kWh battery in a couple of years for as little as $16K. The B250e is great but we do occasionally take my wife's 18 MPG BMW for longer trips. The Bolt would be perfect for that, and seems to have a lot of interior space for a small car (just like our B's). No doubt M-B will be releasing longer range EV's soon but they will likely be a lot more $$$ than I want to pay.

 

[erwinsc]

Hello everyone,
I'm here again looking for a suggestion: there have been huge delays with my purchase order, due to a series of circumstances - mostly bad communication between the dealer and MB.

The dealer is now offering a 2015 model with similar configuration to what I requested
(except colors, but I wouldn't mind too much about that)
and a little additional discount.
He guarantees it is a brand new car, sorta "MB stock" that MB wants to sell, but it's tagged year 2015,
so it could have been produced anywhere between june 2014 and june 2015, from what I can understand.

If I don't get this deal, my purchase order would delay six months,
and the dealer couldn't grant the same discount he made now (a pretty interesting price).

What do you guys think?
My bigger concern is the model year.

I read online there were issues with 2015 models,
I found this recall from NHTSA website
in short, the vehicle could stop unexpectedly, which is of course quite risky.
But I guess this being identified as a "software issue",
making sure with the dealer the software is updated, should prevent this risk?

Do you have any experience of this?

Is there anything else I should be aware of to properly decide wether this would be a good compromise or not,
by picking a 2015 car instead of 2016/2017?

Thank you for your time and help

 

[JeffRay]

Erwin,

Not getting what you wanted is never a good thing. In my case, I would push for an even bigger discount under the thesis that car dealers first offer is never their best and final offer. The reason being is that a 2015 is worth 10% less than a 2016 and it will translate to a resale price. Doesn't matter what the mileage is and the fact that the cars are basically identical in all material aspects. If it were me, I would be motivated by a discount of 25+% off MSRP. Others should chime in. From their viewpoint it is a leftover so it should be priced to sell. You might check the resale price of gently used 2015 as a sanity check.

There is a thread on the recall. Problem has been fixed through a software fix.

 

[erwinsc]

Thank you for your quick - and wise answer.
Yeah, I was very upset at first. Now I'm getting a bit "colder" on the situation.
I've spent weeks, and searched so much to find the new car suiting my taste,
plus other weeks to find a dealer willing to sell it (you wouldn't believe how difficult getting this car is here!)
and I'm a bit distressed not giving a full-stop to this situation still.
So my decisions could be a bit rushed by haste to close the deal, which is not good, of course.

You're definitely right, this would motivate a much bigger discount, if nothing else, for the additional depreciation.

I think I should add some more info to better depict my exact situation.

My history with cars is different from many of forum users here, from what I can tell.
This is going to be the third car I would buy in life, as I keep cars for 8-10 years before changing them,
so depreciation would not be that huge issue for me (when I resell my cars after 10 years, their list price is soooo low anyway).

But it's definitely something the car dealer has to take in consideration, true it's a very relevant point!

Another relevant detail:
there seem to be a special promo lasting until the end of this year for B classes (only here in EU?),
and the dealer is already applying a very high discount:
all considered, with this additional discount for the 2015 car (~7%)
this would be 40% off from full list price, which I find quite interesting.
I'm doubtful he would add still more in that regard,
but yeah - that's definitely something to try!

I mostly want to be sure I'm getting nothing "less" (if) when buying a 2015 car,
beside depreciation - that's definitely true.

If B classes from these two years are 100% equivalent,
say, there is no "sleeping battery deterioration" (something I don't think exists..?) or other components aging even when not in use,
or new features / fixes / improvements I would be missing from the 2016 production,
I'm anyway tempted to accept and have the car 6 months earlier with (confirmed) a good price.

... and sorry, I didn't think at all searching a thread about that recall here on the forum
Will definitely look for that and read it thoroughfully!
Glad it's completely fixed (and so I guess I would get the same software as a 2016 with the fix!)

Thank you very much for your suggestions and thoughts

 

[JeffRay]

Erwin,

No noticeable battery degradation reported but since the car is old and a one year battery test is standard, ask them for the results.

40%, whoa. If new you get the federal tax credit on top of that. Or are you including? If not including, you are in good deal territory. Be sure you get it and this is not already taken by dealer.

I am like you, had a BMW for 10+ years, my MB wagon is now 10 years old, and I drive my dad's old roadster occasionally. That being said, I leased my MBe cause of the new technology and limited range which is likely to expand in the next generation of electrics. I am considering extending my lease to year 4 and possibly year 5. If you drive locally, errands, etc and have a garage to plug in overnight to top up, you could be good for a spell. 10 years, dunno if that is in the cards for any electric. Unknown territory as they say.

Check out gently used 2015s to see how close the ask comes to the price they are offering you.