Only charging at 2 kW rate!

[JeffRay]

So overnight the last two nights, the car froze outside in 5 degree temperature. I had no issues starting the car and getting where I needed to go. However, at the dealer today looking to recharge the car. Usually, it goes at 6 kW rate, today only 2 kW. Is it possible that the car has throttled the charging down due to very cold batteries? I have enough juice to pick up wife and kids and go home so that is fine. Will then hit a garage near me and plug in to see if it is the cold or perhaps a faulty charger at the dealer. I saw no error messages. Of course, dealer had no clue.

Will update this post tomorrow with further observations.

 

[JeffRay]

Was down to 12% so went to garage near condo to charge up at the cost of parking plus $10 charge fee. The standard Clipper Creek unit was regulated down to 3.3 kW by my car this time. Took 10 hours to go from 12% to 110%. The garage was a frigid 39 degrees. I am starting to get worried that something is off although no error messages. Tomorrow will be warmer so am going to top up at the Whole Foods free charger to see if I can get the normal 5.8 kW there.

The battery is fully charging but taking twice to three times as long to charge. This never happened the prior 3 winters with prior car so watching. If it does not bounce back soon, will have the dealer check out the software and charging port. Not hopeful that they would know without contacting MBUSA central. My dealer is owned by them so answers usually are fast.

 

[Dracula]

Check the options in the car menu, there is one that limits the max charging rate.

 

[JeffRay]

Dracula,

Thanks. Will take a look tomorrow.

BTW, did go to Whole Foods yesterday on a 50 degree day but test was not possible as I had to share charger with another car so never exceeded 3 Kw/hr rate.

 

[JeffRay]

Dracula,

I could not find in the car menu where to adjust max charging rate. Can you please guide me? Thanks.

 

[rrattie]

Jeff,

You could try searching the owners manual https://www.mbusa.com/content/dam/mb-nafta/us/owners/manuals/2017/operators/MY17_B-Class_Operator.pdf much easier to find things that way than flipping through all the pages.

I'll tell you, it's on page 165.

 

[JeffRay]

Thanks RR,

I found it and set it at 13A. Not sure where it was set at. Am charging Tuesday at dealer so will test it then.

 

[JeffRay]

Dracula,

Thanks for solving gremlin. I reset the Maximum Charge setting at Maximum. The other choices are 13A, 8A, and 4A. Today, am sitting at dealer and on the EVAcess app, can see it is back to charging at 5.8 kW rate. Hooray.

So this is the second time the car on its own set the max charging below maximum. Not knowing until Dracula pointed out this switch, I did not set it lower. Perhaps when it was 5 degrees out, it reset lower to prevent damage to the batteries when charging.

Whew, dodged a warranty repair. I say that because there is only one trained tech at my dealer and it takes a while to diagnose and fix motor, battery or software related issues.

 

[JeffRay]

Its happened again after six months. On Monday, I left my car at dealer to charge for six hours with 9% left on battery. When I first retrieved my car, nothing had changed. I had them plug in for 30 minutes and it crept up to 12%. At that rate, it would take over 16 hours to fully charge my car. Service manager suggested I leave the car for them to look at. I did not as I had to pick up kids from school. The settings were range extender, Maximum charge, and set exit time.

I did that and then went to a commercial charging station and left it there for 4 hours. It went from 9% to 52% which equates to around 3kwH. The settings were range extender, Maximum charge and set exit time.

Today, I went back to the dealer and had them charge the car for 3 hours, no range extender, Maximum charge, no set exit time. The battery went from 48% to 100%. So it seems to be back to 6 KwH charge as dealer only has L2 chargers.

This is when it would have been good to have an app that monitors charging remotely.

Conclusion: Something wrong with Range extender function or time to departure or in the worst case, the battery.

This sort of happened to me last February and it self-resolved with time. I have a service appointment Thursday but likely will cancel it and see what happens on next charge.

 

[FordAnglia]

I did that and then went to a commercial charging station and left it there for 4 hours. It went from 9% to 52% which equates to around 3kwH. The settings were range extender, Maximum charge and set exit time.

Jeff,

Did the commercial charger display charge rate? This data point would help understand energy flow.

A good place to start looking is the simple circuit in the vehicle that communicates with the charger. Although the connector has a water-tight seal when closed, any electrical leakage path will result in the charger stopping.

There is a quasi-analog handshake between the EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) - The "Charging Station" and the vehicle. It first detects that the J1772 plug has been inserted (and the pins remain dead for safety), followed by a test of the PE (Protective Earth) connection (again for safety)

Then the charging station sends a 1 kHz square wave on the CP (control pilot) pin that is connected back to the protected earth on the vehicle side by means of a resistor and a diode (voltage range ±12.0±0.4 V).

If that circuit is closed, then the charging station can also test the PE (protective earth) pin.

The vehicle can request a charging state by setting the resistor to 2K7 ohms. Switching to 880 ohms the vehicle is ready to be charged and switching to 240 ohms the vehicle requests charging with ventilation. Power is only supplied if the area is ventilated. Which is usually the case with EVSE stations outdoors.

Please update as you learn more.

Peter,

 

[JeffRay]

FordAnglia,

No, the commercial unit was a Clipper Creek so unable to monitor actual start time and had to guesstimate the rate of charge.

Today, I went to a Chargepoint commercial charger in an outdoor paid parking lot. I started with 63% and ended with 93% in 1 hr 52 minutes. CP said it was sending 6 KwH but getting only 15% per hour is lower than my usual 20% per hour. It was set to Max charge, with range extender on but no exit time set.

I stopped at my free Chargepoint charging station at the local Whole Foods. No dice, all four were kaput per the CP person I talked to. I did get a "Waiting for Car" message but strangely heard the handshake clicks. Max charge, range extender on, no preset exit time.

Will keep monitoring but intend to bring it in as it is under warranty.

 

[FordAnglia]

No, the commercial unit was a Clipper Creek so unable to monitor actual start time and had to guesstimate the rate of charge.

My employer has many Clipper Creek EVSEs. Only a few lights and no data logging. Bummer.

Today, I went to a Chargepoint commercial charger in an outdoor paid parking lot. I started with 63% and ended with 93% in 1 hr 52 minutes. CP said it was sending 6 KwH but getting only 15% per hour is lower than my usual 20% per hour. It was set to Max charge, with range extender on but no exit time set.

ChargePoint knows your vehicle model (set in your profile) and will predict "Miles Range Added Per Hour". On a CP station I expect to get 20 - 22 Range per hour. Or, said another way, 20% of battery if attempting an Extended Range charge to 100%/100miles.

All four CP stations I've used at the local Target are now down, so I'm charging exclusively at work.

Peter,

 

[JeffRay]

Peter et al,

So the end of summer charging woes continue but not all related to my B250e.

1. Went to work place after a couple of weeks of working remotely. Found the outside outlets under new locks. The landlord decided to stop free charging and asked my what I thought I should pay. I said if free is not an option, then I would be willing to pay their cost plus a convenience fee for a reserved charge time. They are pokey 110v outlets and I told them the charges don't cost them much. If they installed L2 chargers, another matter.

2. Limped home with 6% left so had no choice but to roll into commercial lot a 420 p.m. After 5 hours, only had charged up to 63%. This works out to charging at 3 KwH rate. I did examine the Clipper Creek unit and it was charging but the cable seemed thin, not the usual thicker kind I see on ChargePoints. So I left it there as there is a flat $20 fee plus the overnight fee. Car set to range extender, Max charge, no set exit time.

Strange but when I was looking at PlugShare app in Brooklyn for a charging spot, lots of Tesla chargers, more than J1772s. Guess that does reflect the relative ratio of EVs in this area.

 

[FordAnglia]

They are pokey 110v outlets and I told them the charges don't cost them much. If they installed L2 chargers, another matter.

I have a commercial meter that measures electrical consumption. brand is "Kill A Watt", Model P3 (there are others that do a similar job)
https://www.amazon.com/P3-815825012707-Electricity-Monitor-2-Pack/dp/B00BSUA88K

This will settle your curiosity (and your landlord's) about power flow from a standard 120V outlet.

Limped home with 6% left so had no choice but to roll into commercial lot a 420 p.m. After 5 hours, only had charged up to 63%. This works out to charging at 3 KwH rate. I did examine the Clipper Creek unit and it was charging but the cable seemed thin, not the usual thicker kind I see on ChargePoints.

All of my employer's EVSE are Clipper Creek, but two of the eight are L1. Definitely thinner cable and much smaller pod.

So I left it there as there is a flat $20 fee plus the overnight fee. Car set to range extender, Max charge, no set exit time.

Please follow up here when you collect your car.

Strange but when I was looking at PlugShare app in Brooklyn for a charging spot, lots of Tesla chargers, more than J1772s. Guess that does reflect the relative ratio of EVs in this area.

Sad but true. Newer EVSE installations are going to be L2 or CCS (Fast DC) as newer EVs accommodate faster charging. Time is money, the provider can profit from delivering higher charging rates, assuming they are not offering free charging as a customer convenience.

Wow, 6% battery reserve. I've gone as low as 7%, mostly to experience how the B250e drives, and also knowing that my destination (work) had L2 charging even if I had to wait my turn during that day.

Tesla Model 3 vehicles dominate my employer's EV Row


Peter,

 

[JeffRay]

Peter,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses. Here is an update:

1. Have not heard back from landlord about our new deal yet.

2. So I picked up my car after having left it plugged in for 16 hours. Full range extended charge, as expected. It was charging at a 3 KwH rate so could not have been just an L1 charger. Next time, when desperate and plugging in there, will set an exit time for range extended charging mode. It cost me $54 inclusive of $20 charging fee to get 100 extra miles per the GOM. My last choice obviously but handy to have near my apartment.

3. Seeing YouTube videos about the VW offering, and even looking at the hybrid new MB B. If I can work out a deal with my work landlord, might be able to get by with weekly overnight charging and top ups during week while at work.

4. Interesting device you linked to. Multiple uses, not just for our cars. As a total aside, recently put in a portable ac unit but the circuit was tripping each night. Tried to calculate on spreadsheet the total consumption of all the devices on the circuit. Concluded I needed to get a smaller but more efficient ac. Problem solved.

 

[FordAnglia]

So I picked up my car after having left it plugged in for 16 hours. Full range extended charge, as expected. It was charging at a 3 KwH rate so could not have been just an L1 charger. Next time, when desperate and plugging in there, will set an exit time for range extended charging mode. It cost me $54 inclusive of $20 charging fee to get 100 extra miles per the GOM. My last choice obviously but handy to have near my apartment.

Ouch! We have come to expect "free" energy for EVs. However, $54 is about the price of a full tank fill on our ICE vehicle (Acura MDX)

May have misunderstood; you needed 16h to charge 100 miles range? Or, your garage kept your vehicle for 16h and the charger kicked off at 100% charging?

4. Interesting device you linked to. Multiple uses, not just for our cars. As a total aside, recently put in a portable ac unit but the circuit was tripping each night. Tried to calculate on spreadsheet the total consumption of all the devices on the circuit. Concluded I needed to get a smaller but more efficient ac. Problem solved.

It is a handy gadget! Can be used for any energy audit where you have a regular 120V plug in device. If you know your electricity cost (Kwh) it will give consumption costs over a longer experiment. Helpful for appliances like your refrigerator or AC unit.

Another handy tool is the clamp-on Ammeter. For example.
You will need to find and separate a hot wire (black) to attach the ammeter. Ripping the jacket off a short extension cord works well. Quite safe - no bare conductors, the clamp uses the transformer principle to sense and measure the current flow in the conductor that passes through the clamp window.

In the EV world we talk about charging amps, and only need the voltage number to calculate energy flow (Kw)

As an aside, it looks as if L2 (and higher) EVSEs are tied to three-phase utility feeds. In the USA this would be 208V (not the common 240V number associated with domestic "split-phase" wiring)
If the feeder comes from a three-phase Wye ("Y") the phase to phase voltage is 208V, but the phase to neutral is the familiar 120V, there is no 240V combination.

On the other hand if the feed is from a three-phase Delta the phase to phase voltage is 240V. One phase is center-tapped as the neutral, to deliver the familiar 120V. But from the Neutral to the "Wild" phase we get 208V. All of this was worked out and made standard in the 19th century.

As you are in NYC the voltages may be less; Edison started with a 96V DC system, and much of NYC is (or was) on 100V AC while the rest of the USA is/was at 110V, and new installations are 120V (increasing the voltage over time helps utility companies deliver more power without more copper (or aluminum) in the feeder cables to homes.

The EVSE's only role is to connect the utility circuit to the vehicle's circuit, and not modify (step up or step down) the voltage. Due to the long EVSE vehicle cable the voltage will drop a bit at the vehicle end. No easy way for me to poke around with a meter...

Peter,

 

[JeffRay]

Hi Peter et al.,

I was not clear. Every reason to think it was charging at a pokey 3 KwH. I left it at 63% and went home. Picked it up in the morning so likely it finished around 4 a.m. or so.

BTW, workplace landlord agreed to give me the three digit code to unlock the outdoor 120v charger. They are adding $15 per month to my parking tab at my suggestion. My calculation said I was likely costing them about $5 per month in electric bill for eight 5 hour charges plus two 24 hour charges per month.

They did not bite on installing a proper L2 charger for their tenants. As far as I know, I am the only one with an EV even though he said he was getting inquiries from others. I don't think it was true. I do know that in a sister building run by same landlord, my company was charged $50 per month for same kind of thing. So I like to think I negotiated a significant discount.